Stamina Boosting Items
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2024-09-23 | 16:46:05

Apparently VR's latest updates include options you can purchase and use during the race to boost your stamina.

I will not be doing any more races while that option exists.

As far as I am concerned, the integrity of the game is destroyed if all Full Packs are not racing on equal terms. I refuse to play a game where ongoing additional expense is required to be fully competitive.

I am not going to delete my ID, and will not be leaving my team's Discord channel... So if they change away from that, I will be happy to come back and race more. But if it stays that way, I'm retired from VR.

I'd like to say Thank You to Cvetan for his work on Zezo over the years. I have really enjoyed this exceptionally high-quality tool. It's a great example of how sometimes it's best to not over-complicate things.

commenticon 18 Comments
Post by iconPost by NikoSurcouf | 2024-09-23 | 19:09:47
Hi YourMomSA,

I think a lot of players agree with you and will probably stop playing after the Vendee Globe if nothing changes.

It was always interesting to study your routes in the game.

Cheers.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2024-09-23 | 19:28:20
Thanks. I'm sorry to have to say that won't even be doing Vendee unless it changes before then.
Post by iconPost by NikoSurcouf | 2024-09-23 | 19:38:59
I'm waiting for 4 years for this race so I have to do it, but obviously the experience is already ruined, I'm disgusted...
Post by iconPost by Tumi | 2024-09-24 | 18:46:48
Hi YourMomSA,

I'm sad to read your message but you are absolutely right. Hope VR reads and hears your message. Thank you, I'm a big admirer too

Tumi Biscotte
Post by iconPost by Babounek | 2024-09-25 | 04:57:56
Hi all,
I'm fully agree with you all...
We have to inform VR about our disagreement concerning this new V7.0.1 (including the large list of bugs). I ask them to come back to the V6!!!
Tanks everybody and a special huge thank to Cvetan for his huge work!!!
Babounek
Post by iconPost by ogin8 | 2024-09-25 | 09:48:20
Good day to you,

VR, same as many online games, is a business venture and they will do anything that will potentially increase their income. We have only choice pay and play or go away.

The other option is to play VR for free (sans options) and that could be devastating for VR if widely practiced during VG, when they expect massive participation and same income :)

Ogin
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2024-09-25 | 14:22:21
Well said.

I was willing to deal with the gradually increasing costs, and gradually dropping credit rewards. I was getting more and more picky about which races I would pay for, due to the rising full pack costs, but that's ok. As you said, it's a business. They need to find the price point that is most profitable for them.

But... I simply won't play a game where ongoing daily expense impacts who wins. If the Full Pack, alone, doesn't provide a full opportunity to compete on equal terms, I simply won't play. I can't imagine it being fun, and I can easily see how addictive the boosters could be.
Post by iconPost by ogin8 | 2024-09-25 | 19:37:27
Hi YourMom,

I did my choice 3 years ago and since that moment I have played in total 12 races (none started in 2024) with only few full packs. I'm not familiar with latest version of the game and I'm confused with your info that the will be daily expenses but if it is the case it certainly means end of the game for many of us. You will be not alone.

On the other hand as already NikoSurcouf said, I'm not sure what my decision will be on Vende Globe. I need to think about it. Maybe I will reduce number of races further to VG and JV only?
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2024-09-25 | 20:38:48
I should clarify... I'm not a fan of boycotts and my choice to stop racing shouldn't be viewed as a call for one. Everyone should make their own decisions, and if people like the current version, that's fine. It's just not for me.

To clarify for those who don't know...

-A couple years ago, they introduced "stamina". Each maneuver brings your stamina down. It climbs back up with time. The lower your stamina is when you execute a maneuver (sailchange, tack, or gybe), the longer your slowdown penalty is. This added an interesting new challenge.

-The new version added multiple new options to the game. I haven't looked into the details of the new options, because most of them are included in the Full Pack. I think if I continued to play, the new options would probably result in me almost always only playing with a Full Pack (except when I'm just playing around for fun and not competing). The new options make it more difficult to be competitive without paying for a Full Pack, but... None of that is why I decided to stop playing.

-The new version also includes at least three ways to temporarily improve your stamina situation. I believe one temporarily increases your stamina max, and one temporarily reduces the stamina lost per manever, and one increases the pace at which your stamina is regained. There might also be something that simply restores stamina. I believe there is a limit on how often each can be used, so there's a limit on how beneficial these things can be... But... you have to spend credits each time you use them, regardless of whether or not you've purchased a Full Pack. That's the issue for me. I simply will not play a game where I have to make continuous decisions on whether or not to spend more as the game moves along, and where people who are willing to burn credits on these elements at the maximum allowed rate have an advantage accordingly.

I haven't entered a race since the new version was introduced. If it turns out that I have misunderstood the situation, I welcome clarification.
Post by iconPost by goyann | 2024-10-03 | 09:04:55
Fully online with you. I proposed to limit these boost to max 2 or 3 per week of race and include them to the FP. This may add more strategy to use them, and provide same options to anyone wants to win.

Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2024-10-03 | 20:37:43
Agreed. If the game had a maximum allowable rate of use, and the Full Pack included usage at that rate, it would be acceptable and potentially interesting.

If their goal is to encourage people with large credit balances to consume credits, I believe the answer is simple... allow people to buy Full Packs with credits.
Post by iconPost by jroualet | 2024-10-10 | 08:35:53
Can't agree more with you mate.

I've never had a level neither the dedication to compete with top players, and often just participated with the minimum that I could buy with credits given for races, and for VG, RDR & TJV, increased the boats with credits won during the year.

Then, thanks to social networks I won couple of Full Packs and skins of the official teams the last years which were quite helpful to help me enter into the top 5% of couple of races, especially given the changes in the credits we were earning in the races since 4/5 years. But never intended to pay for it as I was not good enough to think about reaching the Top 50 :D

When Stamina arrived, that was already a big challenge for random players like me especially when you happened to leave automatic sails change on without properly preparing your route. But that's part of the game, and even if the new addons could help with this, I'm totally against it, even if that was limited in number. It's a bit as if a sailor was not bringing enough food for the VG and in the end would receive food or anything by choper during the race...

Stamina, winchs, magic furler, lounge, jacket... VR becomes nut!
With winchs and reaching sails I could somehow hope not to be too far from the lead, but now we can't imagine this anymore.

Anyway in case you quit, thanks YourMom. You're probably one of the first player I followed back probably in 2012 where we could use Hugo Boss black boat skin (or other teams) for free if I remember well. You became the Alex Thomson of VR, wondering which crazy route you would think about to take the lead, being one of the only foreign flag with tipapacheri in between mostly French ones, and staying without official team for years. That was fun following you ;)
Post by iconPost by Robot_Rock | 2024-10-10 | 16:00:53
We are in the same boat and that's sad...


Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2024-10-23 | 17:57:33
I received a partner code for Vendee, so I have decided to go ahead and do Vendee. I still don't intend to do any other races, before, during, or after Vendee, if consumables remain part of the game.

This may sound contradictory, but I actually WILL use consumables while doing Vendee, when it seems important to do so. When I race, I try to win. I don't see a reason to do the race at all if I'm not willing to use the consumables. I have about 7000 credits, and will use them accordingly. I won't buy more credits if I run out on consumables. I will then re-retire after Vendee, unless the consumables disappear.
Post by iconPost by ogin8 | 2024-10-24 | 12:00:33
Hi,

Partner code for VG - urgently wanted :)
Post by iconPost by James | 2024-11-09 | 15:33:23
Wow YourMom
You caved. Not that I care really, but you were doing really well.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA2 | 2025-01-24 | 23:20:36
With the race almost over, I wanted to share some updated thoughts on this topic...


PERFORMANCE IN VENDEE:
-I don't think consumables mattered much at all in Vendee. Particularly for the top few boats. They had an outstanding race and should be congratulated accordingly. Consumables were irrelevant in their results.
-In the thickest parts of the fleet, consumables may have mattered a little... But not a lot. In a long race like this, the consumables don't matter much.
-I am not as good at this game as I used to be. When I was #1, there were fewer tools available (routers, dashboard, quality polars, etc). I was good back then partly because I was figuring out things on my own beyond what was available in tools. Now the tools available to everyone are better than what I can do on my own, and I am not enthusiastic about learning multiple routers, etc. I used to calculate polar crossovers myself in Excel. Now there are excellent tools available for everyone that are better than what I was doing. Additionally, I'm just not as motivated to work hard at it as I used to be. I still enjoy racing, but I'm no longer at the top level.

GENERAL IMPORTANCE OF CONSUMABLES AND RELATED OPTIONS:
-The stamina-related options they've added (beanbag, etc) reduce the importance of stamina, and therefore also the value of consumables.
-The net effect of this, though, is that it makes it that much harder to compete without a Full Pack. We're being pushed more and more toward "buy a full pack, or just play for fun".
-In a long mostly offshore race like Vendee, with a Full Pack, the impact of consumables is minor, and it is possible to ignore them and still do very well and to win without using them.
-However, in short coastal races like C600, where many maneuvers must be executed in rapid succession, the consumables will be critically important. This is somewhat mitigated by the limits on how often consumables may be used, but using consumables often, and being strategic about the timing of their usage, will be keys to such races.


HOW I FEEL ABOUT CONSUMABLES (if anyone cares):
-I still feel they are awful for the integrity of the game. I detest pay-to-win games, and I don't want to play such games. I only entered Vendee at all because I was fortunate enough to get a partner code for a free full pack.
-I firmly believe VR is damaging their product by offering the consumables as an option. I like the game when everyone buying a Full Pack was competing equally. I also liked that people who earned enough Credits to be able to buy all of the relevant options for a race could compete equally against the Full Pack boats. Now... All competitors can buy incremental gains by buying consumables. To me, that's a major problem.


HOW I FEEL ABOUT PLAYERS USING CONSUMABLES (if anyone cares):
-I'm fine with it. I used them myself during Vendee. Mostly coffee. Mostly toward the end.
-Multiple people have suggested to me that they feel this is inconsistent. I guess they feel that users who dislike the consumables should refuse to use them. And perhaps some people feel that players who use the consumables should be viewed negatively. I disagree. As far as I'm concerned:
---The problem with the existence of consumables is a problem with VR's game design decisions. That has nothing to do with the users who use them.
---Users should play to maximize their performance within the rules of the game. They shouldn't handicap themselves to make a point.
---Therefore, I see it as a choice to either race with consumables despite not liking them, or not race at all. Personally, I don't see much point in paying for a full pack if I'm unwilling to use the conumables.
-I hate it when players are angry with other players for things that are actually VR flaws.
-I don't like boycotts either. People should make their own decisions and do what they want to do. VR is running a business. If they produce a product that more people will pay for, they'll make more money. If they produce a product that people won't pay for, they won't. That's fine, but I think it should be driven by the quality of the product.


MY PLANS
-I'm mostly going back into retirement after Vendee. I don't like playing the game with consumables. Hopefully VR will eventually re-think that decision. If they don't, they'll lose money from players like me, who used to buy 20+ full packs per year and aren't doing that anymore. Will they gain enough to offset that from other users, paying for credits to buy consumables? I doubt it, but it's their business and they can make their own business decisions.
-I might occasionally still enter races where I feel consumables aren't important. Reverse Odyssey is an example of something I might decide to do. But I won't do races like C600, even though those are some of my favorite races. I don't want to have to think about whether or not to buy consumables, when to use them, and so on.
-It's possible I might occasionally enter random races without paying for a full pack or any options, just to help my team get 10 finishers. In such cases, I'll just be playing for fun to help my team and earn a handful of credits. Of course I won't be spending on consumables in such races.

Post by iconPost by ogin8 | 2025-01-25 | 17:35:49
I'm not a fan of consumables either, but if we look at the number of skippers 826k taking part in VG at least, for VR it has been a huge success. And the truth is, they won't look at whether a few skippers will play or not only because they don't like the new rules. They earned enough from VG to announce thay thay go in the right direction.

It's also very sad news YourMomSA that there will be less of you in VR, I've always appreciated your balanced and valuable comments and often watched your maneuvers, like most here I guess :)
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