Zezo forum: RealSail - new platform

RealSail - new platform

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2021-02-17 | 13:28:35

Cvetan,
We are several from VR testing the new beta virtual sailing platform named RealSail https://www.realsail.net/
This game seems promising, and very open and listening to the community, and there are improvements done every few days.

If I remember well you said they contacted you, and if not it would be good to contact them as an integration with Zezo would be great.

Thanks,
.UV

54 Comments

Post by zezo | 2021-02-17 | 16:14:24

I will support it sooner or later, but can't get to it. I have a project at work that's becoming short on time, and with that Covid the life is a bit of a mess. Someone/everybody gets quarantined occasionally and I have to take care of my daughter (or can't get to the office, and doing work with a 5yo around the house is almost impossible)

Post by Ventura_317 | 2021-06-02 | 09:21:27

RealSail Grib Interpolation seems different !

Post by Chinook15Jim | 2023-02-25 | 22:20:08

Best wishes Cvetan. I hope your life settles down soon. Thank you for making VR-O much more enjoyable for me and I'm sure many others.

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2021-02-17 | 16:22:04

got it Cvetan, appreciate the quick answer. Take care.

Post by pmangino | 2021-02-26 | 22:00:24

Hi Cvetan, I'm one more virtual sailor looking for new fresh sites to enjoy virtual sailing. It's nice that eventually and accordingly with your other projects and duties, you will support realsail.net
Best regards:
Pat Mangino
Princess Marina Skipper.

Post by Baker | 2021-02-27 | 00:06:17

May I ask if and when realsail.net will be up and running ? Is it just for a closed beta testers group right now ?
thanks !

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2021-02-27 | 09:14:43

Yes RealSail is still in beta mode. You can register thru this page https://www.realsail.net/ and you will be notified once a new race will start.
We don't know right now when the game will be publicly available.

Post by Baker | 2021-02-27 | 16:50:07

thanks Ultimate!

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2021-02-28 | 08:20:17

Platform crashed again this morning...

Post by SPRexxii | 2021-03-12 | 21:35:00

Realsail has been making great strides and is really involved with the beta testers. they have shut down for about 10 days to make improvements with shoreline limits and other items including migrating to a more stout server platform. try the link above mid next week as they usually start a set of beta races Friday afternoons. you can find a chat server on discord with very good information and discussion on the game.

Post by Avontuur | 2021-03-14 | 09:23:02

The RealSail platform is Beta testing with an IMOCA 60 polar. is it possible to provide a map for Europe or world with this polar?
No waypoints or gates, just the map with the polar.

I used the Nordstream map with the class 40 to plan my race in the Mediterranean. This works, however the right polar would be nice.

In the game the polar is IMOCA 60:
no foils, no polish, jib, spi, gennaker (assume light).
Small punishement for tack, gibe and sailchange

maybe somebody compared the polars more in detail to check if it is old or new. at the moment this does not matter for it is only for testing and bug removal

Post by Avontuur | 2021-03-19 | 15:17:26

The Vendee Globe map can be used with manual inputs:
choose C0.
The gennaker is less powerfull. it only covers the gap between spi and jib.

Post by azazel | 2021-03-19 | 17:02:03

hello tonight at 9:30 p.m. utc departure of a regatta on realsail register to test

Post by BooBill | 2021-03-21 | 02:25:38

Been doing the Sydney-Hobart race to see what this is all about. Race is a real snooze. Totally straight run so far.

However, interface is clean, easy to learn and seems to work with few bugs. Those that have had problems have posted in the "report a bug" chat room and the developers have responded. No getting form letter replies from Jessica 3 days later.

It's real easy to connect the built in NMEA feed to any router that supports it. Apparently, you can even upload a route in KML that you generated and it will program that. That's the first thing I've had problems with. Trouble shooting now.

What Realsail would really benefit from is the Zezo/Dashboard ecosystem. qtVlm is super powerful, but also super complex. It would be nice to have the simplicity of use that Cvetan, Michael et al have created. I hope you guys can find the time to support it. I really think these guys are going to succeed in taking a chunk out of VR.

Post by Tarahumara_POR | 2021-03-21 | 18:54:05

Finish the Sydney Hobart Race today .. a little more complex platform, slower, but made in a more professional way.. so far positive experience :)

Post by Baker | 2021-03-23 | 18:10:03

I am racing in Den Helder Scheveningen, it's maybe something that will grow, but VR, with all the bugs you can find in it, it's still a lot more immersive. Let's hope they have the resources to work on it and let it grow in the future.
@BooBill, I loaded the route generated with Qtvlm and I can see the track "superimposed" on the regatta field. I've found no way to program it if not manually drawing my waypoints on it.
The programmer it's really still very close to an alpha version for what I saw.

Post by BooBill | 2021-03-23 | 20:59:02

Yeah, I was under the mistaken impression that if you loaded a .kml then it programmed those waypoints. It just puts a track on the screen that you can then trace with wp or autopilot.

The one thing I really do like about Realsail is you can mix waypoints and twa program moves. So, no need to get out of bed when you clear a headland to click the twa button.

Admittedly they are having some issues today. Fortunately, I picked a good day to play golf ;)

Post by Armchairsailor | 2021-04-11 | 07:51:54

I think it is sufficent to have one race to stay open with the imoca 60 polar to enable Real Sail planing. That seems doable even witha five year old running around.

This is sufficent as it is possible to set any destination and to input any startposition and the wind information is present worldwide.

Post by BooBill | 2021-04-11 | 18:28:09

The Realsail Imoca polars are not the VR Imoca polars. They are actually more realistic, with some real gaps between sails and points where the polar lines are not concentric. I think they got their hands on a real 1st gen foilers sail polars, but are only using 3 sails, hence weird gaps.

That said, I know a lot of guys are using Zezo for their routing over there and being mindful of the gaps.

It's my impression these guys are going to succeed and draw a good number of people away from VR. I for one enjoy their races a lot more than VR. Official Zezo support would be huge for them.

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Post by Avontuur | 2021-04-22 | 06:17:19

Tonight 1900 UTC we start a new race in RealSail: Brest to Lisbon.

this race is organized by our community :)
The game is still in Beta mode and small bugs appear.
the programming and waypoints work much better now and make it possible to navigate both coastal and off shore.
on Discord players can participate in the discussions on the developments and have fun with other players.
As mentioned earlier you can do rough navigation with the Zezo VG map with power winch only. The best result is obtained if you use a routing program with the correct polar, because there are some significant dips in the RS IMOCA 60 polar.

Post by BooBill | 2021-04-22 | 14:18:10

If you want to check it out without taking the step of registering and racing, Realsail has a spectator function, so you can follow along and see if this interests you.

https://beta.realsail.net/#/viewer/jvgoiMcCFA

First thing you'll notice is the nearly continuous movement of the boats. Popcorn recommend!

Post by SlyStarLeRetour | 2021-04-25 | 21:45:44

Hi Boobill, I followed your advice. Looks good indeed. I started to sail the Boxing Kangaroos cup ... but grounded because my TWA didn't lock up and therefore went straight... Still got to learn it :) but promising, agreed

Post by Ventura_317 | 2021-06-05 | 08:26:18

Hi BooBill
Is the Discord Chat only available for fully registered players ?
Is this Chat the best way to propose improvement or mailing to RealSail an other option ?
Thanks

Post by BooBill | 2021-04-26 | 00:42:58

Your presence was noted immediately Sly.

As with anything, bit of a learning curve. Although, Wamaprod placed 2nd in the Brest-Lisbon race that finished this morning in his debut.

Almost all the bugs worked out now. Virtually no downtime anymore. Still getting the kinks out of the land detection routines. Some people are obsessed with that, but I'm of the attitude, you want to take a chance go for it. Seems you might escape the coastline detection on the way in, but not the way out, effectively trapping you.

This Boxing Kangaroos Cup is a beast from a routing perspective, with a gate run parallel to the rhumb line that you must cross, but from either side and it's right where the isochrones of the east and west major routes meet.

I guess that's what you get when you let a bunch of drunken marsupials design a race course.

Post by SlyStarLeRetour | 2021-04-26 | 02:51:23

... drunken Marsupials ::)) Excellent !...

PS / question is more : how to get off an aground position and go back to sea? Seems we are stuck for ever?

Post by BooBill | 2021-04-26 | 05:21:20

Hopefully they've solved it now. Earlier today people were going aground and managing to escape through the collision detection system. Then they would get caught by the system as they attempted to cross back over the coastal barrier back into water. You can always do what Hardtack did and ask for assistance. The developer has towed a few off the rocks.

Joining the Discord server is a good idea. There is a lot of chatter about issues like this. Being able to bust balls with the competition in real time is a lot of fun too, or maybe that's just my nature.

Post by BooBill | 2021-04-26 | 05:24:02

Oh, I see that wasn't a theoretical question. You are hard aground. I'll put in a request to free you.

Post by theo | 2021-05-08 | 11:40:07

I didn't like it on my first visit to this platform. I thought it was just out of the beta test and to see my yacht parked in the middle of a city without any way to get back to sea, didn't help and probably influenced me to see with a negative eye, the platform. I didn't understand that it is now under beta. Additionally, I found the environment kind of dark with the real map and difficult to get a clear picture of all yachts in the water and everything. Reminded me a bit of "windy" (the weather forcst platform), in which is difficult to identify the see from the land. I'll give it another try for sure!! We should be supporting every platform that is doing promising work. Definitely, VR needs an answer to the games defiant in-race condition

Post by BooBill | 2021-04-27 | 17:38:51

Taking another crack at the Annapolis-Newport race today at 2000UTC after the first attempt yesterday had to be abandoned due to problems with the land detection. Join at https://beta.realsail.net

Post by Trailaspress | 2021-05-08 | 17:58:59

This Real Sail is full of bugs, waste time, they need to improve the software.

Post by jdcrouch1972 | 2021-05-15 | 12:05:27

What a good set of recent races, Thanks Bill for the perseverance on Newport and the Kokomo route

Post by BooBill | 2021-05-15 | 14:13:44

Yeah, we've had several solid races now that have not been disrupted by malfunctions. Really good competition as well, with lots of different strategic options explored by different groups. The BK Cup you did JD, was gruelling, but a real demonstration of the interesting courses you can set in RealSail the way their gates work.

Key difference is, the gates can be crossed from either direction and are permanently validated. You need only pass through each gate in order. Course designers can do a traditional mark rounding by using two gates together. However, this gives the interesting possibility of placing a gate roughly along the rhumb line and stretching between two wide landmasses. Players then have the option of going either way around each landmass. They can pass through the gate between them, or touch it and double back to cross the second landmass on the same side.

That presents a very interesting challenge from a routing perspective, particularly if you choose the touch and go option. Where is the optimal place to touch?

They are talking about launching the production system soon. With now four races going on in VR, that's going to be a bit of a lift to get folks moving over en masse.

Post by jdcrouch1972 | 2021-05-16 | 18:16:10

Thanks chap, I like the odd technical follow my leader race but agree I find it hard to be on so many races across various different platforms, at least the weather windows are different but that creates a problem all its own.

If only the cyclonic system had turned west, we could of done all that at high speed instead of that interminable first week.

I do prefer a race where it isnt really a race to the first mark and chance of success drops away for people at each turn leaving last (and best) boat standing at the end. both Kokomo and BK Cup swung back and forth constantly between both fleets and some of the tight courses are exciting in terms of boats match racing each other but I think we found some ideas that other race formats dont have. When I asked about the bi directionality and he said yes there were it was like WOW. I think they thought I was annoyed by it but absolutely not.

Now just for Team NZ and Ineos to open up the gates and the course a bit too for AC37.....

Post by BooBill | 2021-05-16 | 21:34:58

The kind of race I like least is the attrition follow the leader race, like you said. VR seems to be full of those, where there is really only one viable route that all the leaders follow and one by one drop off when they make one little mistake, sleep through a weather update or something and from which there is not recovery.

The coolest thing about Realsail is community leaders design the courses and host the races, not the developer. Even in beta there is no shortage of courses and if one doesn't appeal to you, skip it.

Post by jdcrouch1972 | 2021-05-22 | 13:51:22

Skip a race, sacrilidge!

Post by Avontuur | 2021-05-23 | 12:44:00

Regular new races are planned on realsail.net, now getting in the final stages of Beta. practice your skills to be ready for the live game!
for example Sunday 30th May 2000 starts Timbercoast cargo under sail. sail down the river Elbe, find your way around the Dutch islands and finish in Porto. https://ibb.co/8dYzLK3
Get the right spirit here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyx3K6LOdgs

Post by BooBill | 2021-05-30 | 16:18:38

Realsail is going into production at 2000 UTC today.

Kinks have been almost completely worked out. Little things still crop up, but at this point, I'd say it's a lot less buggy than VR. The biggest difference is, if you report a bug or an issue (most are actually user error honestly), Realsail developers will be on you pretty promptly to do a deep debug.

There is now a router available that is optimized for the game and connects to your boat through NMEA. It's not Zezo, but it's built by someone well known to all of you here. I'll leave it to him to reveal himself if he wants to.

Going into production also means that they start their pay-to-race model. Costs depend on the length of the race, but there is also an unlimited plan that's less than EUR 20 a month. So, less than one major race in VR. They do plan one free trial race a month so people can give it a try without pulling the wallet out.

Post by Yanual | 2021-06-01 | 08:09:43

Okay BooBill,so I wait for the first free race to appear.

For a launch, it would have been commercially wise to offer several free races, at least one each week for the first month.

Sorry, I couldn't find a price table based on the length of the races. I am not yet ready to spend EUR 24.16 (including EUR 4.19 french VAT).

Can you give me a feedback on these 2 requests?

Best regards.

Post by Ventura_317 | 2021-06-05 | 08:54:48

Hi BooBill

What is this Router you are talking about ?

Where is hidden the access to loading a kml file : I saw it a couple of time but cannot repeat it !

Thanks

Post by BooBill | 2021-06-02 | 16:36:34

From the launch announcmet.

With this official launch, we will start the Subscription and Pay Per Race model on the competition. One of the main requests from the community was having a game where all the skippers sail in the same conditions and the best strategy wins. So we have built a Pay Per Race model instead of a Pay to Win model. And this is how we have defined this model:
There will be at least one popular free race every month for the new skippers that want to try the game. We will promote it with time so as to have as much skippers competing with us.
The other races organized by Realsail and the different communities will be Pro Races and there will be a fee for participating on them
You will be able to use the "Pay Per race fee" for short races (<500nm) and medium races (between 500nm and 1000nm). The short races will cost 4,97 euros and the medium races 6,97 euros
The best option will be the "Monthly Subscription fee" that includes all the races in the month and the possibility of competing on long races (>1000 nm). The cost of the Monthly Subscription Fee is 19,97euros/month

So, just EUR 4.97 to get your feet virtually wet.

Post by DonJuan21 | 2023-02-24 | 04:57:05

I like the model.

Post by Hardtack | 2021-06-05 | 10:02:34

Okay, so I said I wouldn't announce my own router on Cvetan's router forum but I'm doing it anyway now, to officially qualify myself as an idiot. This is only slightly mitigated by the fact that my router is not a match for Zezo and there's a non-zero chance you will find it unavailable because it crashed again.
Find it here: bitsailor.net/start

Post by zezo | 2021-06-05 | 10:13:35

I was feeling guilty for not providing support to RealSail (and I have promised). So I'm glad someone is helping them move ahead.

Long story short, the entire Covid madness hit me a bit too hard. Not the virus itself, but the associated stress.

Post by Ventura_317 | 2021-06-05 | 10:06:47

Hi again BooBill

I did 2 requests on your previous comments this morning .Not sure you noticed it !
Your "we will" means you are involved in the RealSail Software ?
Found in RealSail many ideas already used by the Great LiveSkipper.com !

No doubt that RealSail will soon be the Number 1!

Post by BooBill | 2021-06-05 | 11:10:02

Ventura_317. I am not involved with the development of Realsail, I'm just a user and the leader of the Crazy Canucks community. That means I can organize and host races. I pay to enter them, just like everyone else.

The comments above were a cut and paste of the launch announcement email, in response to a question about the pricing.

I would really love to see you support Realsail Cvetan. Hardtack keeps beating me with his router and I need something better ;)

Post by Ventura_317 | 2021-06-06 | 07:37:24

Is Discord Chat restricted to fully registered players ?

Is NMEA service restricted to fully registered players ?

Post by Avontuur | 2021-06-06 | 11:22:34

hi ventura
you can sign up on https://www.realsail.net to become registered, this is for free.

The discord channel is open for everybody.
there is a free around the world race where you can practice and discover how the game works, including NMEA.

Post by Ventura_317 | 2021-06-06 | 16:38:17

Hi Avontuur ,

I have already a boat every think is fine excepted I cannot get any NMEA data on Qtvlm and access to the Discord Chat !

Post by Avontuur | 2021-06-06 | 19:37:30

Nmea can be activated in the race under settings / routing with a switch.
For discord, maybe start a discord account first and then follow the link in the game or the mail

Post by wallin | 2021-06-10 | 11:41:57

I'm experimenting and, from what I've seen, my best opinion will not be successful. I am currently without access.

Post by BooBill | 2021-06-12 | 02:00:45

If you join the Discord server and say something they will come to your rescue. They've gone into private debug session to resolve issues, which often are at the user end. I know it requires a fairly recent browser version for instance.

Post by wallin | 2021-06-12 | 06:19:36

BooBill, thanks for the information. I'm connected again.