Wind
Post by iconPost by WaterHammer | 2017-10-24 | 15:28:29

Hi Cvetan,

The wind we get in the game is very much different from the wind displayed. Are VR slowing us down to give the real VOR a chance? The wind we actually seem to get (by looking at boats around me) looks much more like your (zezo's) wind. Maybe a bug at VR?

commenticon 26 Comments
Post by iconPost by NOR7034 | 2017-10-24 | 16:49:48
May be You should try to restart Your browser? At about the same time today I was happily sailing along when I noticed my competitors were sailing a very different course with the same TWA. Seems like the game winds somehow froze on my computer...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-24 | 17:01:06
There are differences between server and interface sometimes, and I have no idea why. It's possible that they use different winds at times, but there is no easy way to tell what's going on from the outside.

Restarting the interface/clearing the cache might be useful in such cases or at list won't hurt.
Post by iconPost by WaterHammer | 2017-10-24 | 23:31:11
Thank you for the advise!
Post by iconPost by 92gege56 | 2017-10-25 | 15:11:56
Hello,
Perhaps a bug, but there is a difference of almost 10 ° Wind between VR and ZEZO at the same place.
Where is the problem?
Post by iconPost by 92gege56 | 2017-10-25 | 15:20:32
example :
VR : direction : 247, Wind 71° bab
zezo:direction : 236, Wind 70] bab GFS 06Z

???
Note : At 12 o'Clock, there is no pb and GFS zezo 00Z

Perhaps a pb of changing meteo
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-25 | 16:13:03
The difference was mostly +/- 10 minutes in time. The router runs in 10-minute steps and in conditions like today in the center of the anticyclone there was 10 degree difference over 10 minutes.
Post by iconPost by bronze13 | 2017-10-27 | 12:06:01
I notice different winds in VR and ZEZO this morning.
Now, at 11:00 at 38N35,8 and 11W53,5
VR is 80 degrees at 9.5kn and ZEZO is 78 degrees at 11.2 kn.
Why?
Which is correct?
Post by iconPost by 92gege56 | 2017-10-25 | 17:57:15
But what is good, TWA or direction?
At what time VR and Zezo are sync?Minute 0,1,2,3....or 9?
Note : At this time (16h53), all is OK
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-25 | 18:00:34
It depends. I'd sail in the general direction suggested by the router unless it would lead to unneeded sail changes or go over the optimum angles. The track tool is your friend.
Post by iconPost by jpafonso | 2017-10-26 | 00:54:42
It might not be that. Cvetan, I detected a problem in your graphics a day ago around a small anticyclone near Madeira: the Wind drawings appeared to be shifted in relation to either the winds in VR but also the winds showed by the mouse pointer in your maps. It is the second time I detected something similar (the first was in the Clipper) but was the first time I perceived that the culprit might be in the drawing routines and not in the data. I don't know if it's an occasional problem in my firefox browser or something that you corrected already: I tried now to look for another cyclone or anticyclone to confirm this but this time I didn't detect anything. But at the time, it was obvious.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 07:52:47
Client and server don't necessarily have the same notion of time.

With the former 10-minute cycle of the game the server was trying to tell you "in some future moment, between 1 and 10 minutes from now, your boat will be moved. At that time wind speed and direction will be such and such"

I should get rid of the "update minute" logic now, maybe round the time to the closest 10-minute interval to minimize the error, and then make sure that client and server use the same 10-minute moment.

Of course, there could be another source of error too. Code is written in different languages, uses different data formats and so on.
Post by iconPost by jpafonso | 2017-10-26 | 12:28:30
I'm not understanding what you are saying with de-synchronism between client and server, so maybe I misunderstood what you were discussing first. Probably, I'm missing how you are doing it.

My guess was, you prepare a page for each request with all the data of the moment, and it is the job of the client to draw the winds at least. Doesn't make sense in this case to ask the winds (on mouseover events) to the server with an ajax like request because it would strain it, and "all" the winds should have been sent in each request anyway, to be drawn. So there shouldn't be any contradiction in the winds design and what the mouse indicates: if I go with the mouse around an anticyclone, I must witness all kind of angles, 0º for winds from the north, 180º from north, etc... but at least one time, it was not what happened. Instead, I found those angles on another position where the winds was drawn more or less constant. My impression was, the numerical data was right with what virtual regatta was showing (and so, the routes suggested, I guess), but the winds drawing was shifted... at least that time.

PS.: I finish turning at Porto Santo, an hour ago... the 10 minute cycle you were saying was not the source of many crashes against land in the past? When we thought we were curving just in time, but the VR server would put our turning point much more forward? :-)
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 13:40:02
The winds are rendered by the client, but are not based on specific data file - the data is calculated at run time from the 3-hour standard files and a timestamp sent with the static data.

So it's possible that when you load the page at 10:00 the server will use 10:10 as origin for the calculation but tell 10:00 to the client to dispplay the "Now" wind
Post by iconPost by WaterHammer | 2017-10-26 | 14:55:22
Hi Cvetan, right now I see that the isochrones are quite conservative when you compare them to the dots and circles in your track lines (the green, red and blue ones). With the track lines it appears that I will cover much more distance (in the order of 3% as a rough estimate). Do you know about this? Many thanks.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 15:05:43
Do you hapen to have "Full extra pack" checked but not foils?

The Pro polars used by the track tool still have static correction for foils.
Post by iconPost by WaterHammer | 2017-10-26 | 15:25:42
Yes, exactly, I have Full extra pack checked and foils not checked.
So I better check the foils too then.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 16:11:10
Yes, as long as we are on a starboard tack and your boat has foils.

But if you compare the tracks with and without foils you'll find almost no difference - the routing is much more affected by the local weather systems than by the 4% performance gain.
Post by iconPost by fatuivamarquesas | 2017-10-26 | 18:11:00
Bravo for this fantastic initiative. If you wish to count on me, it will be with pleasure. I play on VR since the beginnings and I saw the financial side taking more and more importance and the bad turn oh the last interface. In my next messages, I shall give you tracks to explore useful to realize this project. The first point would be that it is possible to converse on the game in French as in English. Something else also, seen the disaffection of the players, would be to pass by the various groups which are still present on VR to establish player's consequent network. Two or three years ago, VR was interesting with the possibility of programming, that to see in real time the progress of all ths ships, and, also, the launch of the races at the same time as that of the real races. Today you have two records of world tour which get ready and VR loses interest in it completely... A problem met also, was that certain players had access to a specific router and not the other competitors... I do not know if this established fact is to be reproduce). (To follow)
Jean-Marc.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 18:29:18
Hmm just keep in mind that the VR CEO is actively following the forum now and threatening to sue. See the other thread.
Post by iconPost by Sideshow | 2017-10-26 | 23:37:03
Hi all,
Good to be back once again for the VORG and as always zezo is invaluable.
Similar to Waterhammer I am seeing a disconnect between the wind displayed in zezo and the route displayed in zezo. Cvetan, I've emailed you a photo of what I'm seeing.
If I click on one of the black dots along my route it shows a box with time, distance, wind direction etc. This wind direction seems to match what is in the game and is driving the routing (very effectively!). However, the smaller box that follows your mouse pointer displaying wind, hdg, twa shows a different wind direction the majority of the time. The wind barbs in zezo match this smaller box. The example I emailed shows the big box with wind direction of 102 and the small box shows 117. If I click on the black dot on the blue contour lines the wind directions align, but this seems to be the only time.
Hopefully this makes sense!
Good winds all
Sideshow
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 00:22:21
That's the (undocumented and incorrect) expected behavior.

Only the "Now" wind is properly interpolated in time. When you click a black dot you get the closest original 3-hour grib. That's why the thick lines align (also those exactly between them, 3 hours apart)

This can be fixed in about 10 minutes if someone has a good idea how to do the wind display drop-down in way that's informative and does not make it 3 meters long and impossible to scroll.

Nice to have you back in the game, btw.
Post by iconPost by Sideshow | 2017-10-27 | 00:52:29
Ok, I see what you mean. Can you do the wind drop down hourly for the 1st 12 hours and then move to 3 hourly after that? Would only mean adding 8 times to the list.
Thanks
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 01:02:49
That might work, and can be done with about 5 lines of code.

Now the problem is to express the "+1h" idea properly if it means "the next hour on the hour". Maybe just switch to time of day. Then the problem with time zones arises. Should I switch to local times or just UTC?
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-27 | 12:58:11
UTC.
Post by iconPost by Journeyman27 | 2017-10-27 | 01:12:56
UTC as everyone will (or should know) what time zone they are in relative to it.
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-10-27 | 01:54:31
Maybe leave the drop down as 3hrs. Add buttons for << and >> either side of the existing < and > ones: the <<&>> would then move 3hrs at a time, and the < & > would change to being 1hr in either direction?
I would still really like to see the relevant isochron highlighted in some way, but I'm fairly sure Cvetan explained that was very non-trivial :(
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