RORC Transatlantic Race
Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-19 | 14:44:39

Are you gonna provide routing for RORC in a couple of days, Cvetan?
Would be nice if there is a beta version, so I can select my code 0 ;)

Any tips for the best angle across the Artlantic?

ship: DancingDjMike
NMS + C0 + barrel cards.

commenticon 50 Comments
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-19 | 15:01:21
Coming soon. I'm planning to make the current "beta" default for future races, but will wait VOR and Clipper to finish before changing them.
Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-19 | 15:41:24
Great!
Post by iconPost by hipolou2 | 2017-11-20 | 17:01:18
quel sera le type de bateau pour la RORC
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 17:13:22
Clipper
Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-22 | 00:12:49
Wait, "Clipper" is a kind of boat ?
didn't you mean "Imoca" instead ?

[Edit] Nevermind, I read it down below. "Clipper 60".
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 00:22:03
It's actually '70 https://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/race/fleet

Quite heavier and slower. And no foils. More cruiser than racer actually.

Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-22 | 00:33:11
i'm a bit confused now.
We're talking about the RORC, right ?

but now you're linking to a page talking about Leg 3 of the Clipper RTW...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 00:39:39
That's the boat used for this RORC by VR. Same as Clipper RTW.

The real race has everything between Class 40 and tp52 and Volvo 70 and two supermaxies.

Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-22 | 00:48:08
Ok.

So back in VR, if I understand correctly :

- We will racing the RORC on a Clipper 70 (a boat that has no foils IRL, but VR will still implement the foils, behaving the same as in the VOR) ?

- We are racing the Clipper (all legs with the same boat type I guess) on the same Clipper 70 (I thought we were racing on Imocas here) ?
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 07:12:53
You got it right.

Imoca was used for the first supported Clipper leg (second in the real race, South Atlantic) but it's about 2 times faster than the proper one and they fixed for the next one.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 17:17:28
Support is now available now at http://zezo.org/rorc/chart.pl

The version is equivalent to the VOR "beta". Checking "Full Options" hides the other boxes to save space in the menu.

You should probably keep the Pro Winches on for optimum routing results, because the 300-second penalty tends to break the global route optimum.

BTW the last time I checked the Pro Winches still were not implemented by VR.
Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-22 | 00:16:01
HTTP 404.

There is a trailing "p" in the extension (.plp), routing to the wrong URL...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 00:27:28
Thanx. Fixed. I got the finish from the official race definition one week ago. They may have moved it in the meantime.
Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-22 | 00:50:01
when you say "Pro Winches were not implemented", you mean they actually make us pay for it, with no real benefit ?
Same as Hull Polish if I understood your other post earlier today correctly too ?

[Edit] Repushing this to the top on the unread messages :)


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 14:36:48
Well, the good news is that actually everybody has pro winches.

The bad news is that they are going to fix it some day, but is probably not on the top of their priority list for bugfixes.

Hull polish seems to work. Difference is that polish is static coefficient applied every time, and the penalty has to carry over from one update to the other. In reality the penalty is applied on the first update and then counted, but not applied further. Also a fractional part is applied, depending on update moment, so it's not 75 second equivalent either.
Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-23 | 10:17:13
Hi Cvetan,

I think we're talking about slightly different things.

You're seeing the Polish from the routeur perspective, while i'm only concerned in the polars chart.

AS I understand it, the Polish adds a static factor to the boat speed (do you know its value BTW ?), whatever the wind speed, the wind angle, and the boat speed.
Whenever the option is subscribed, the factor applies, right ?

So for my concern, I would like to add a checkbox on my options list, and when the Hull Polish option is checked, then that factor would be added to the actual boat speed.

Am I not thinking it right ?


[Edit]
For the benefits of everyone reading this, here is what I am talking about :
--URL REMOVED; BETA CLOSED--

The URL /polars4/ is a beta test for the implementation of every single option that we can select independantly.
Once the Clipper Leg 3 is closed, this will be move to this address :
http://toxcct.free.fr/polars/


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-23 | 11:49:36
1.003 See the link on the bottom. You can just use the original json as your data source. You can also find all the code you need in the plugin source. Take the polar-related functions from it, Michael has published it under GPL
Post by iconPost by toxcct | 2017-11-23 | 11:56:18
Yeah, just figured that post out few seconds after posting mine.
I updated my chart now. The Polish is selectable now.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 17:30:57
Once again the best free option is Code Zero, because in the game it is useful at much higher winds than in reality.

Or foils, if you have few credits to spare.
Post by iconPost by mcmgj | 2017-11-20 | 17:34:56
4 days and 12 hours with foils (between 29 7:00am to 3rd 7:00 pm) ... more than 25% of routing...
Post by iconPost by mcmgj | 2017-11-20 | 18:20:18
Hi Cvetan,
can you think it's a good thing to change C0 to Spi and come back for only 20 minutes without pro-winches (only C0 + foils options)?
2017-11-25 20:20 T+ 7:20 88.1nm 2841.1nm 205° 15.7 kt 135° 340° Spi 11.92 kts
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 18:43:20
If you look at the polars you'll see a dip at 135 that falls below the straight line between 125 and 140 points, so the router avoids it. When you notice such thing you have to calculate the benefits manually.

Also keep in mind the game quirks - no sail change penalty with auto sails on (ok, one, per activation) and that pro winches may still not be implemented.

The penalties break the global optimum routing solution in general because they create false local optimums. A small penalty benefits the algorithm, because otherwise it would tack every 10 minutes in certain conditions. But the 25% lost speed over 10 minutes is a bit too much for it to handle properly.
Post by iconPost by Old-git | 2017-11-21 | 16:44:12
Hi Cvetan,

Can you explain what you mean by your first paragraph:

>> If you look at the polars you'll see a dip at 135 that
>> falls below the straight line between 125 and 140 points,
>> so the router avoids it. When you notice such thing you
>> have to calculate the benefits manually.

I thank you in advance.

Steve
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 16:57:24
See below
Post by iconPost by camillelfg | 2017-11-20 | 23:56:29
Hi Cretan,

There is a little problem with your beta versions (and the RORC) on chrome on iOS and Android.

Some of the menu items are not clickable. There are initially the items “pro winches” and “timeshift” which are proposed, but not actually not selectable.

I suppose it’s specific to the mobile versions, but it’s a big issue because you can’t get any other sails than jib and spi...

Could you have a look at this ?
I’m almost only using these versions, on iPad and android phone...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 23:58:56
I know, the mobile menu is entirely different than the right click. But could not get to it. Got distracted by the retrospective routing.
Post by iconPost by camillelfg | 2017-11-21 | 01:00:11
I see, I see...

And yes, other items are missing too, like "ignore gates" and of course you can't get to the sail menu (with all the possible sails).

Until now, it wasn't a big deal not having the "ignore gates", but now, not having any extra sails at all and neither the timeshift, that's more of a problem... ;-)

But anyway, great work !
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 13:29:42
Give it a try now.
Post by iconPost by camillelfg | 2017-11-21 | 17:27:25
It works perfectly now !!!

You’re too damn good...

Thanks a lot
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 17:30:55
It was almost ready and on the TODO list anyway.
Post by iconPost by Kroko | 2017-11-21 | 13:30:38
The insufficient mobile menu caused me grey hair too.

I bypassed the deficiency using following method:

First I selected appropriate sails, foils, winches etc using desktop browser on my computer. Then I looked at the url. There is a string o=XXX, where XXX is a number corresponding to the selection made. E.g. choosing only C0 sail results in o=64. The url for RORC Transat with only C0 sails is hence http://zezo.org/rorc/chart.pl?o=64

I bookmarked this url and use it in my Android phone and iPad.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 13:32:53
Too late ;-)

But this could work in other cases - just bookmarking a charts with different options selected.
Post by iconPost by Kroko | 2017-11-21 | 13:41:11
That was a fast and working fix, makes my life a little bit easier, thanks. Yes, I use my method in VOR with the old menu in place.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 16:58:12
@Old-git:

It's faster to sail at the points where the black lines touch the polars than at the point in between, especially if there is no sail change.

Post by iconPost by Old-git | 2017-11-21 | 17:42:14
Thanks Tsvetan ! I understand now.
Post by iconPost by ludo13470 | 2017-11-21 | 22:52:18
Hello,

Can you confirm us the boat for this race will be an Imoca 60 ?

If not, can you tell us which boat it will be ?

Thanks
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 23:12:14
Clipper.


VR actually calls it imoclipper because of the visual skin and the foils. But the polars correspond to Clipper 70.
Post by iconPost by camillelfg | 2017-11-21 | 23:53:12
Hi Cvetan,

Still a little thing that doesn’t work on the mobile Chrome menu : the two « go to » points. They don’t do anything...

And it seems that the RORC destination is much more north near San Juan.


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 00:05:42
I'll check it.

The first point is a gate and you don't really want to go there, but adding it to the list draws a circle in the chart.

The other one should be selected as default destination anyway, but does not work in Android indeed and that should be fixed.
Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-22 | 00:02:06
Hi Cvetan,
Routing with 16d goes south of the mark now. the mark has a red dot on your router, but it is not considered.
Is it on your TODO list?

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 00:10:23
I'm watching if it will be needed, and add it accordingly. May add it tomorrow, just in case.

Post by iconPost by Old-git | 2017-11-22 | 00:23:09
Just saw the arrival point on the VR interface is wrong... Zezo has got it like the real transat.

What a mess!

in the cache the coordinates are correct, but not the geographical name:
"end":{"lat":12.0993,"lon":-61.7429,"name":"Virgin Gorda","date":1.513296E12,"radius":5,"countryCode":"IVB","countryFlag":"VG"},"raceName":"RORC
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 07:16:44
Exactly. There was also additional buoy around the finish point.
Post by iconPost by Kroko | 2017-11-22 | 12:51:36
The finish is moved to the right place. The buoy is there, have to sail south of the island?

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 14:16:19
Thanks. I love it when my programmer's laziness pays off and some issue resolves by itself. It's partly intentional, of course ;-)

I've fixed the destination name (Grenada) and will add the first buoy later today. Second mark too, if/when needed.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 16:39:30
Mobile GoTo fixed. The drop-down list is indexed by number in the mobile version and the new options overlapped the gotos.

First buoy added to the router

Finish name updated

Anything else that I'm missing?
Post by iconPost by DomJee | 2017-11-23 | 00:50:01
Hi Everyone,

First Zezo thanks for your forum and your tools.
Would it possible to get the polar for the RORC in a excel or csv format ?

Thanks
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-23 | 01:07:02
http://zezo.org/clipper/polars.json

Turning it into csv and xls should be pretty straight forward with the use of text editor (remove [] from the sail polars, paste the tws[] on the first row, paste the twa[] vertically in the fisrt column and Bob's your uncle.
Post by iconPost by Bigsandful | 2017-12-01 | 21:49:52
link says 404
any other place to get them? I have been making thecsv files manually off of your polar charts.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-12-01 | 22:24:57
Should work again now. I've replaced the setup for the current leg, and the polars went down with the previous version.
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