Zezo forum:

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-12-13 | 14:32:14

I notice that the messaged wind visible in the VR extension and also visible if I click other boats is about 6% lower than the wind shown in the UI (which is probably the interpolated 100% NOAA wind).

Anyone notice this too?

The reason might be to slow us down to have the real VO boats not lagging too much?

Fair winds to everyone.

28 Comments

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 14:45:20

It's just difference in the wind data used by client and the server. It's one of the reasons that I refuse to replicate the client behavior exactly - it does not guarantee that the server is using exactly the same data in the same way.

Post by Slapdash | 2017-12-13 | 15:00:06

I notice... via the Dashboard, that over the last few hours the winds are pretty steady in speed...for about 5-6 iterations.... and then 'jump' back to the displayed in game wind'.....

So a discrepancy builds up, and then appears to be rectified....

I must assume the same is happening to everyone else!

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 15:05:49

5 iterations are 10 minutes. So if the server uses 10-minute steps for the interpolation and the client uses exact 2-minute slices (or vice versa) you would see exactly that behavior.

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-12-13 | 15:32:32

That's indeed what I observe too. Especially as we now are sailing towards lower wind and then after 10 minutes are overtaken by stronger wind coming from behind.

But still those values are lower than what the client shows. The client "thinks" too much for itself. :-)

Post by Slapdash | 2017-12-13 | 15:07:35

I think you are probably spot on....
It has only become really apparent to me in these rapidly changing wind speeds.....

Post by karriv | 2017-12-13 | 15:11:34

Yep, total and utter crap this system.

Whoever came up with the idea to move the player's boat every minute, but other boats not at all? I fail to see any logic or reason in that.

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 15:44:01

@Slapdash your observation is spot on. Pattern is clear once you know where to look:

01:32 20

01:30 19.3
01:28 19.4
01:26 19.4
01:24 19.5
01:22 19.5

01:20 18.8
01:18 18.9
01:16 18.9
01:14 19
01:12 19

01:10 18.4
01:08 18.4
01:06 18.5
01:04 18.5
01:02 18.6

01:00 17.9
12:58 17.9
12:56 18
12:54 18
12:52 18.1

12:50 17.4
12:48 17.4
12:46 17.5
12:44 17.5
12:42 17.5

12:40 16.9

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 15:45:37

There are two obvious components of the change. One is spatial - wind decreasing as you are running away from the system. The other is temporal - the system catches up and overtakes you a bit every 10 minutes.

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 15:53:06

Pure speculation again, but I can see the reason behind such behavior.

Server-side where you have to move 100000 boats it's faster to do the temporal interpolation once (360*180=64800 points/calculations) and then use the wind field to calculate the spatial interpolation for each boat.

When you do it this way you also guarantee that all boats are using the same wind field and hence a fair play.

Calculating personal temporal speeds for each boat would require 100k*4=400000 calculations and require very careful design to use the same data for each boat.

Given that the game was running in 10-minute steps few months ago, VR probably reused that part of the old code that generates the field and only runs once every 5 minutes.

Post by Slapdash | 2017-12-13 | 15:59:17

More ammunition for 'nsp'.....

So what we see....is not what we get, at least when the weather situation is 'fluid'

Well... at least we now know......

Don't worry about what the game is telling you..!!!
The truth is in the 'Dashboard Extension'

Once again... thanks guys for all the hard work....

LOL..... I have to keep reminding myself....this is only a game.

Post by MichelleWhy | 2017-12-13 | 16:43:27

Not sure if the Dashboard extension is the answer to everything. IMO it would make more sense to look at every ten minutes iteration in the Dashboard and ignore everything in between because it doesn't reflect what is really goin on server side.
This will smooth out everything a bit.

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 16:45:34

The Dashboard tells you exactly what's happening server-side.

VR have designed the feature in the protocol, but don't use it currently, because wind data for your own boat would be obviously different from the cursor wind data.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-13 | 18:09:50

but the dashboard is receiving an update every 120 s ...

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 18:26:35

Game engine moves the boat every 2 minutes and sends position update to the client, along with the wind data used, penalties and so on.

And that's what really matters. You can be offline, your interface may display 0 or 100 knots of wind speed. It does not affect your boat movement.

Post by nsp | 2017-12-13 | 18:51:23

@slapdash From now on I only will say: "Fake news!!" even when no news..the more usual way in the "Planet of the Apes" :P

Retrograde weather - fake weather!

System that takes you over - fake system!

No information about this, no news - fake news!

LOL

Post by nsp | 2017-12-13 | 19:49:32

I was just thinking about what this idiot retrograde interpolation updates do if we are in autosails in marginal situations, like now as an example.

If I was in auto sails last 30 minutes I would have had 3 sail change penalties instead of one, with the adjustments I would potentially have had 5 to 6 penalties....

And you can verify that Cvetan with your numbers, since you are almost in the same spot that I am, with same heading and same TWS and TWD.

Fake System!!!

Post by zezo | 2017-12-13 | 21:00:14

That's interesting point. I'm with auto sails and will see what happens tonight.

BTW it's a fake ranking too. At one point the game said you had overtaken me. Almost got a heart attack ;-)

Post by nsp | 2017-12-14 | 01:31:32

as if...it was something that extraordinary...bahhhhh...fake friend! ;)

Post by nsp | 2017-12-14 | 01:46:15

by the way .. you are now behind me....hahahahha
*** CODE BLUE TO CVETAN'S ROOM***
*********INITIATE CPR!!!*********

(fake heart!!!)

Post by zezo | 2017-12-14 | 06:43:05

Back to the point, I lost about a mile last night because of fake sail changes, as discussed above. C0-Staysail-C0-C0-Staysail in 10 minutes.

TWA 110
TWS 30.5

Post by nsp | 2017-12-14 | 22:07:39

Due to retrograde adjustment at the endof the 10 minutes period or due to be navigating in a marginal angle during that period and a normal change of TWS occured?

Post by zezo | 2017-12-14 | 22:43:59

I think it was the speed. Fell under 30.5 at the end of the 10-minute period then went above once more.

Post by nsp | 2017-12-14 | 23:35:10

So it is how we were suspecting!

Apparently, aside regular wind speed alterations, the interpolations and the retrograde update at the end of each period are potentially increasing 2 times more the penalty chance under autosails mode, when navigating in a marginal angle. Good to know!

Fake Autosails!

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-13 | 21:19:08

on a fixed heading now. if the wind with drops, increases or shifts, my bowman changes LG to Stay and back. according zezo-router it should happen 3 or 4 times tonight. per change at this speed it is 0.28 nm

I think everybody has overly active bowmen, so it won't make much of a difference ;)

Post by Bulli | 2017-12-13 | 23:40:42

I'm catching up to you, suprisingly. Only 18 nm behind now. Was sailing with the wrong sail for 5 hours yesterday and dropped to rank 18000 because I was afraid to activate the autosails in the morning and forgot about the necessary change to code0 during the day :(

I find myself switching between "Full Pack" and every sail without Winches in Zezo even though I have winches in order to optimize my course with less maneuvers. This is a lot of checkmark clicking in the configuration going back and forth because of the automatic option hiding behind full pack.

But I like the tactical challenge with the correct maneuver slowdowns and autosail behavior. However, they should show it in the client for the duration (maybe with a rotating winch icon ;) ) and have a bit of hysteresis for when you change something and change it back within half a minute or so.

Post by zezo | 2017-12-14 | 06:47:55

There is an easy workaround. Every option combination has a corresponding number in the o=xxx parameter in the addres.

Full options is o=244

If you want to turn pro winches off just change that to o=240 and hit enter.

But turning the pro winches off is not generally a good idea. It makes the router work worse - it does not have memory so simply said it will delay maneuvering to a later point instead of using the possible benefit of early sail change or tack.