Post by iconPost by freudenoli | 2017-09-20 | 20:41:28

maybe we should stop throwing our good money at a bad company and start throwing it at a good cause: we initiate a crowdfunding program with all the disappointed VR players to fund Svetan to create a beautiful sailing game for all of us...

commenticon 184 Comments
Post by iconPost by pmangino | 2017-09-20 | 21:42:12
Agreed and support 100% the idea
You can count on me.
VR and its crew have been steping backwards since long time ago...
I can asure you that the number of serious players will decrease drastically sooner or later, unless they revise and correct their voracious appetite for money ($$$$$$).
Best regards,
Princess Marina
Post by iconPost by timr | 2020-11-03 | 05:22:55
It’s hard to believe that this discussion is three years old, when I started reading it I thought it was written today! I think VR’s future is in the balance with this VG. I don’t think many of us will put up with the bugs experienced in the Jamaica, Bermuda and Mauritius races again.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-09-20 | 23:07:56
That's too big for single person. I could write a server-side engine in no time, but the user interfaces require too much of work.

Besides, there are at least three independent platforms already available - sailonline, liveskipper and vlm.
Post by iconPost by WINDJUNKY | 2017-10-26 | 01:15:06
As quite an experienced interface designer I'd say, I build the user interface in no time, but the server-side engine require too much of work....


If we could agree on an API between server and client, and the features a really cool sail simulator would have, and which features it should not have; the whole pay money for extra option kind of thing, basically, I'm willing to give it a shot.

I have some ideas, others might have too.... I'm also sailing on sol. Just kind of eager to start the conversation......

=]
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 07:41:18
Hmm I could build the server-side engine in a day.

The basic stuff that moves your boat, that is.

Small details like ground detection, gates, finish line, DTF calculation, waypoints, scaling the game to 100k users and so on could take a bit more time ;-)

But it's not infeasible.
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-26 | 09:01:08
I think building the platform to be easy and nice to play is one thing, but marketing it to get a sufficient user base to have bargaining power in case one would like to run official races is another. SOL is a good example for this. I think the game itself is quite good, but it hasn't been able to build sufficient user base to be a serious contender for organising official races. Scalability of the platform is something I cannot say anything about.
Post by iconPost by theo | 2018-05-29 | 12:18:30


Post by iconPost by theo | 2018-05-29 | 12:18:30
I agree all the way. I do also use SOL and I believe is the most decent platform, but in marketing is way behind VR. I think though that people who made SOL only wanted to create exactly the kind of game they have, which is giving you everything a sailor needs to be a happy racer. Accuracy, fair play, live in-game chat and all tools free for all the sailors. You are able to see all participants as to an open see race, besides the main strategy, you absolutely need to know/see your opponents in order to adjust your race accordingly. Another thing that sucks in new VR and not in SOL is passing by ground. You cant see the ground in new VR as boats are not transparent anymore in full zoom. I got carried away and I can write pages about the unpleasant parts of new VR + the so many bugs it has. In a few words, the new VR platform made some good steps but main goal was not the race experience, but a fancy game (waves by the rocks realistic, 3D etc)in order to be powerful for marketing purposes. I cant tell if they succeed to their goal, but this problems and the increased cost is the reasons they have no more than 60.000 entries while last VORG reached nearly half a million entries.
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-09-22 | 06:55:18
I could definitely play with a much less complicated user interface. As I play now, I manually transfer position lat/longs from here to VR when using waypoints, and with the old VR UI, putting times into course changes would have been much quicker with a text typing box....showing fleet positions could be a separate window (and even that is not a must have to get started) - today in the VR beta, you have no way to see the other people (boats) you are probably interested in!

But if Cvetan says this isn't an option, can we collectively migrate with zezo to one of the other platforms?
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-09-22 | 08:05:12
That might be a good idea. This site has few thousand users and if I move support away from VR it's possible that I will take 1000 people with me.

But then I'm working against my own commercial interest because the site generates some money. Not enough to make a living, but pays some bills.
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-09-22 | 09:39:14
Understood that it would need to be a (financial) win for you as well a (playing) win for the users:)
Of the three you mention, from a quick first look, Sailonline looks to be the most interesting, and the polar data appears to be easy to access. But I am sure you or others have looked in more detail....
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-09-22 | 09:54:28
I've raced quite a bit at sailonline, but not for a while. There's (or at least used to be) a good set of tools available, including the polars, grib files easily accessible, race statistics, tools for VMC, VMG calculation, etc. Playing is free for all players, the game is financed through a voluntary annual membership fee (about 35 USD), so no need to buy any options to be competitive.

The UI is not very fancy (basically no eyecandy), but it does the job. For the social aspect, there's an active in-race chat, and the normal forum.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-09-22 | 10:18:41
It's not only the financial side. I just don't have the time to support more than one platform, because good support means playing the games myself and keeping up with changes. So I've gone with the most popular game.
Post by iconPost by blzblz | 2017-09-25 | 01:32:41
Hi zezo people,
We (some old VR friends) started to build a new sailing game 3 years ago:
http://www.regattagame.net
It's a wind cells game, as was VR 4 years ago.
It's free and tools are available for all users.
Design is light and cpu friendly :)
You can try it without registering by clicking the "Try with the demo boat".
Come on board !
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 13:48:43
@karriv and WINDJUNKY

That's the reason why I haven't built a sailing game in the past 12 years or so.

I think the bargaining goes the other way around - you will instantly get 100k user base ... the moment VOR adds the Game tab on their official site.

But you have to pay them hefty amount for that link. And I'm not sure that the ROI on that is great, or even positive.

That, BTW explains the current price list in the VR game. Imagine paying 1 Million for the link. Then you have to collect 10 EUR x 10k users x 10 legs just to break even.
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-26 | 18:07:18
Dear Cvetan,

The day you want to enter real business, note one thing at first, stealing is not creating. Stealing is just stealing. Stealing a car is the same as stealing programs, datas (intellectual property). Stealing drives to pay fines or more.

Virtual Regatta is a 11 people company and believe my I am paying everyone to work in the company as I don't steal things around. I am not personally rich, I am an entrepreneur who has taken huge risks and spent 11 years of my life developing this.

Is this game perfection? No, I know, but we try, believe me, we try. VR Offshore is the best game on the market, by far, we all know that. And it is probably with all big sailing events/brands, works contractually and in exclusivity with us. It has a cost.

Your are saying all is about money in this new version? I am sorry to tell you you are unfair to say that without saying that a lot is also free now and this is new (progs, auto sails, etc.).

Do you know that several players in the top 30 (VOR leg 1) have not spent a single euro in the game? As well as some pay. I am not forcing anyone, it is just a game. And you know what, I think you havent so many games in the world with so much complexity playable for free.

Have you forgotten all improvements done since first version at Route du Rhum 2006? Are we just taking money and running without investing? No, and this is why other games are dead or almost.

You probably also should remember I have contacted you several times to imagine a cooperation together, what you have always rejected our just not answered the last times. So, please stop immediately to develop that conspiracy, you are causing us damages, what is absolutely unacceptable from someone who using our datas for years and for free. Don't force me to change my mind.

Philippe, founder/owner of Virtual Regatta
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 18:21:04
Philippe,

Those are your customers speaking. If you want to hear what they have to say - hear it. You can censor them on YOUR forum and on YOUR Facebook page, but they will still find a way to exchange their opinions.

And when you sell foils that don't work on port tack - it's your fault, not my fault for pointing that out.

If you want to make a sailing game where players don't have access to boat polars then someone will fill the gap. People will sit down with piece of paper and build the polars by hand then use them in a router.
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-26 | 18:43:28
Philippe, I think you are misinterpreting the comments here if you think people are challenging your right to charge for the game. At least I understand that you need to charge something in order to be able to cover the costs and make some profit. I also understand that you, as the entrepreneur who takes the risks, are entitled to the best possible profit you can make.

What comes to the best game in the market, looking at the complete picture (a large part of that picture comes from the people playing that game, mind you!), you are probably right. But looking at the game platform, there are different opinions out there, and I think it would be smart to listen to them.

What I personally don't like is the lack of transparency. Why cannot the polars be public knowledge? Or how the different options work?

Regarding the new game features, the random cards approach just feels as something made up to collect money (again, you definitely have the right to do that), makes playing the game more difficult, and not in a positive way.

I really enjoy virtual navigation games. I really enjoy the competitiveness and camaraderie. Unfortunately my current thinking is that VR Offshore, in its current format isn't enjoyable enough to justify spending time and money playing it. Most likely I will still play the second leg of VOR, but that's it for me.

Should you wish to hear my thoughts on improving the game, I'm at your disposal.

Best regards and best success to you with your company,

Karri
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-26 | 19:21:12
Dear Philippe,

I am one of the fortunate players who did not have to spend money on Leg 1, because of my participations in previous races.

I am also one of the top 100 players in the worldwide VSR ranking.

I understand you have a business to run and you are entitled to make money out of it.

Now, I agree that Auto TWA is now free. But programming and AutoSails are not quite free, as almost anyone who lived through the gybing battle that took place during the second night of Leg 1 will tell you.

Programming is heavily taxed. 1 card for the first scheduled command, 2 for the second, 3 for the third... Most players cannot get it for free, especially those who are in the lower tiers of the ranking (by the way, what is the point of those tiers?).

Also, I cannot see the point of not allowing the wind to go below a minimum (in this case, 4 knots). It has nothing to do with real sailing.

Another thing I do not understand is the discontinuation of the polar diagram display, one of the best tools VR has ever had, simply vanished.

The cartography now is less accurate than it was, say, in the last VVOR.

You cannot move waypoints if you are "too close" to them (10, 15 minutes before arrival). Why?

Your company changes parametres such as the duration of the AutoSail card or the number and frequency of gift cards without saying a thing to your customers.

If you were in our shoes, would you be happy with the game?

Have you ever experienced playing it as most of us do?

Give it a try, please.

Two more things.

Please do not forget that many players are taking part on VR because of third-party efforts - zezo, pacotools (until recently), VRTools. If we were to depend on features like "HELP", good racing would be impossible. Their initiatives (some of which you have been frustrating since VR 2) help keep the game alive and correct some of the imbalances between players, creating a more level playing field and making races more interesting.

Lastly, if VR is being damaged now, you might consider the possibility that some of decisions you made are backfiring. Read the comments, play the game, leave defensiveness and aggressivity behind you, and you may discover that you need to make people happy to make good money in the long run.

A bientôt.

Alexandre Goncalves da Rocha
Brésil
Post by iconPost by SnowPetrel | 2017-10-26 | 19:56:59
Alexandre (Alexandria), your comments are perfect. You have spoken for many, I believe.

But please re-post, addressing Philippe directly, not Cvetan. VR should read your observations three times, and then say thank you, and then get to work repair their P.R. damage.

Christian (SnowPetrel)
Post by iconPost by wedoarc3 | 2018-04-03 | 12:05:08
Hi Christian,
what is your boat name in this race?

Regards,

Pascal
Post by iconPost by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2017-10-26 | 20:00:14
I hope you mean Dear Philippe - not Cvetan
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 20:09:04
I fixed it for Alexandre (replace(text,'Dear Cvetan','Dear Philippe'))

Hope he does not mind.
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-26 | 21:26:04
No, Cvetan. That's absolutely fine.

I have been supporting your work since the 2011-2012 edition of the VOR. Ever since, as Alexandria or as Lotsemann.

Sorry for my mistake.

And thanks for the support, guys.
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-10-26 | 22:04:51
Philippe,
I applaud your hard work and commitment in building VR. I only found it last year and have really enjoyed participating. However, I am extremely frustrated by some aspects of the current version, to the point where they take so much away from my enjoyment, that I may not continue to participate.

With the old version I could chose whether to pay you money for a race. I did so in all the races I took part in, partly for the improved boat performance, but primarily so that I could program my route based on when I was able to go online: I have a job, I have a family, I have other commitments and the previous version of VR fitted into that nicely. If I put more time into it, my relative performance was higher; but most importantly as long as I could get online once per day, I could be fairly certain that I would do OK. Obviously other people logging in more frequently would perform better since my plan would be out of date based on the changing weather, and there was a limited number of course changes that I could program. So I might not be sailing a perfect course, but I was sailing where I had planned to go.

With the current version, things are completely different. You do allow me to pay for a faster boat, but you do not give me the option to pay you a 'prix fixee' for the options I would like to use for a race. If you add an option for a 'programmable auto-pilot' which gives you unlimited access to the course programmer and waypoints, I would be happy and I believe most of the other people participating in the discussion would also.

With the old version, I could choose when to log on. With this version, you seem to want to control when and how often I log on:
1) you strongly discourage using the programmer to set up multiple course changes at one time, even though this almost guarantees less performance compared to someone who goes online frequently. Why?
2) you want me to log on 3x per day to retrieve the barrel contents. These times are often inconvenient, so I am penalized again. This is extra frustrating since the timing bears no relation to sailing activities.

I am a paying customer, I will be glad to remain a paying customer, but only if you provide a product that I get value from; and the most recent changes are greatly decreased the value of your product to me.

I trust you accept this as constructive input.

JohnT
Post by iconPost by Swedesailor | 2017-10-26 | 23:13:27
Philippe, just needet some nav cards to get through the night now in the front but after 4 packs of 9 or 9 shitty fucking waypoint cards i just give up.
So i guess its manual routing all night long thanks to your bloody useless moneysucking idiotic machine here.
All i ever wanted was 20-25 programming cards, all this race along and now i have 109 shitty waypoints cards that i don´t want !
So thanks alot but this card stuff needs to change to 2nd leg starts mr !
Give us the option to have this function for a fixed price like the last time we got around the world in these 65 footers.

// Mattias "Swedesailor"
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-26 | 23:58:34
Remember: this guy here has been fighting in the Top 10.
Post by iconPost by smaugh | 2017-10-30 | 15:47:07
Can only agree with you, mate
And the thing with every second programming costing more is also absurd. I've spent the gybing battle through Gibraltar on plane, flying from EU to South Africa.
I could do nothing but alow my boat to go in low wind zone, due to fact that I wasn't able to make as many gybes as needed. This costed me about an hour and half , and I was prepared to buy cards, but I couldn't choose the ones I wanted.

Finished leg as 524, and could arrive among first 50-100 players :(

If we're paying, we should, at least be able to choose what we're paying for. Gimme programs and auto sails, and name your price.
Post by iconPost by WretchedExcess | 2017-10-29 | 15:49:46
Hi Philippe

I am posting this here because nowhere on VR do I see a way of leaving a comment. or asking a question. (I find this a little strange)

I have been playing on VR since the 08/09 VOR. During that race and races since then, I have made friends that I am still in contact with on Face book and other media. What I am trying to say is that along with having to choose between spending money and sleep, I miss the social aspect.

In this iteration of the game it is very hard to find the boats around you. (unless you happen to be in the top 50. My final ranking in leg one was 1442. I want to know who was 1441 and 1443. My point is that the rankings were important to me. I miss not being able to see what the rankings were for various races, not only for myself but other boats. I understand that more boats displayed means more band width. By the same token I for one don't care about the pretty waves lapping at the shore. It can't be that hard to put a link to the full standings and history back in even if it is outboard of the game.

Now for the hard part. MONEY! Obviously you are doing this to make money and there is nothing wrong with that, There does become a point when profit can become detrimental. I can't remember the exact amount, but it seems that I could get the full option pack (auto sail, programmable headings, and TWA for a little more than it costs to chose the color of my boat. I have to say that the option pack including navigational aids was a lot more useful.

Lastly accessibility! One of the things about Zero is there are useful tools outside of the router. This forum as an example. Users can exchange ideas and ask questions. If that doesn't work there is a contact link to ask questions. It can't be that hard to set up some sort of VR forum. I think what bugs people a lot is not being able to get information. It seems like some info is kept hidden. There is more information on zero.org than there is on VR.

Overall I like the game. I use it usually after I have put the real boat away for the season, and it provides entertainment during the winter.

Wretched Excess
Post by iconPost by smaugh | 2017-10-30 | 11:14:21
Dear Philippe,

I'm glad to see that you're following this forum, where we, your customers, meet to talk uncensored about your game. I hope that our comments will give you some ideas on how to improve the VR and make the best sailing game even better and more appealing to us, your players.

Unfortunately, your comment makes me think why did you even bother to reply?!

As one business owner to another, IMHO, you shouldn't be explaining yourself and your strategy to the customers. We are all well aware why you have implemented them. To make more profit. That's what business is all about.

Therefore, if some upgrade isn't well accepted, it shouldn't be too hard for you to reverse, change, or improve it. On the other hand, some apologies from your side would make you look better in our eyes.

Stating your personal status is, at least, not tasteful. I'd love you to be rich as czar. Maybe, that would make you less greedy on the in-game purchases.

Complaining about Cvetan and calling him thief on his site is even worse. You should look in the mirror before talking about stealing.

Have you invented sailing games or just made another one? Have you created new class or just got someone's polars? Have you invented winds?

Oh, yes, you have. You invented 4 knots minimum. Congrats on that one.

Instead of further commenting on that, I'd rather stay polite.

Best regards
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2017-10-26 | 19:19:42
Philippe, please observe that at every point in each conversation, Cvetan has said he is NOT going to develop a game of his own. The people trying to encourage him to do so are people who are unhappy with recent changes (such as the card game concept, the 4-knot minimum windspeed, the loss of polars, and the foils not working properly), who would like to see something better, and who feel that their voices are not heard by VR. With the VR forums unavailable, it's only natural for people to discuss those concerns here.

Cvetan is incredibly responsive to users. Whenever someone observes a flaw, he corrects it quickly and communicates about it. When people have recommendations for improvements, he listens and responds, and sometimes executes on those recommendations. Users appreciate the responsiveness and communication. It is therefore only natural that some dissatisfied users would eventually suggest to Cvetan that it would be great if he developed a game. It isn't him proposing that, it's the users.

Cvetan's answer is no, and he has explained the reasons why he is saying no. Please don't treat him as though he's trying to destroy you. He is not. The negativity toward you is coming from your mutual users. He is simply choosing to not censor their voices, and the users appreciate that.

Thanks,
Your Mom SA
#1 in the VSR World Rankings
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-26 | 21:30:01
Perfect!

It is great to have our #1 speaking out. We need more leading players to do the same, especially those from France.
Post by iconPost by Swedesailor | 2017-10-26 | 23:15:01
Well said Mom :P
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-27 | 16:44:17
Hi Champion!

Congratulations for your ranking... not easy!

I have no stress with the fact someone creates a game, they have been over ten and we are where we are, competition is something I like. My concern is not here with Zezo.org, they use our IP and criticise it in the same time. In French we have 2 expressions for that "Crachat Vertical" mean you are spitting vertically then on yourself or "reconnaissance du ventre" meaning you should not bite those who give you food.

More, i have offered cooperation and always rejected. What do you think if a routing system was proposed directly in the game? With a box to check to implement it direct in the Progs? (after potential personal tuning).

For the 4kt limit, it is closer to reality in fact. GFS files doesn't calculate local effects, clouds, etc. Adding a limit is closer to reality on average (we probably will reduce it to 3 or 2kts). But you know what, you cannot design a game with only focus on "sticking to reality". That is a principle I apply for years. It began in 1998 when i designed Virtual Skipper (inshore PC game). I want to give to players the best of the sport (helming, tactics, strategy) not boring things or things done by others on the boat (trimming sails, moving a roller, adjusting cunningam, etc). "You are the skipper" in our games. Let me go further, we could add currents, whales, engines problems, electricity problems, breaking sails, etc. But it is not fun and we are doing games. Simulation games, but games. Some competitors have been in that direction, where are they now?

Hope this answer was useful :-)

Philippe
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-27 | 17:21:44
Oui Philippe,

Tu pourrais ajouter des courants, des ris, , des baleines... mais écoute ce que tous ces gens ont à te dire, écoute...
...
Ils veulent un jeu qui soit suffisamment proche de la réalité pour qu'ils puissent se projeter, mais qui conserve également un confort, et que tout ne soit pas décidé contre eux-mêmes. Même s'il y a toujours eu des raleurs, le niveau de mécontentement atteint 1 niveau qui n'a jamais été aussi élevé. Et il me semble que ce point de mécontentement général, il te froisse aussi. Ce n'est jamais agréable de voir que les choix qu'on a fait ne sont pas appréciés.

A toi de trouver le bon compromis, d'être à l'écoute, il y a plein de moyens pour cela ;-)

Manu
Post by iconPost by andrel | 2017-10-31 | 15:59:53
Well said Your Mom SA and other commenters as well. BTW I was chasing you until felt asleep a couple of hours after Gibraltar and as many virtual boaters could not afford to gybe all the night due to the lack of options.
I was really waiting for this season's VOR game on the VR platform but unfortunately, with present game options, the Leg 2 will be the last one for me.
Even for me as I am not strong in finance looks strange why VR owners can not calculate that 250000*22EUR is more than 70000*15.
Fair winds and all the best.
Thanks
andrel
Latvia
Post by iconPost by ogin8 | 2017-10-26 | 20:12:27
Hi Philippe, hope you will have a chance to read all our comments. I would like only ask you. Why your customers do not have such a possibility to talk with you on your forum? I would say your approach to all your custommers was strange. Do you remember what was the quality of Help in the previous version of the VR? It was complety out of use.
Don't be angry that people are trying to chalenge VR but try to understand us and incoroprate our needs in your game.

My question to Philippe.
If VR is free so why is so expensive in the present version?

BRgds
ogin8
Post by iconPost by mak08 | 2017-10-26 | 23:04:48
Phew, what was that?
The boss sticks his head in, yells at us and slams the door??

I wanted to reply something like "If you do it right no-one will feel compelled to create an alternative platform" or "If you don't listen to your users your company will be obsoleted".

But I just couldn't help thinking "What an asshole". He probably thinks his post is well-considered. It is not. It is full of misconceptions and, as far as I can tell, lies.

Given the choice to take it or leave it ("it is just a game"), I leave it, and it is not because I am not in the Top 10 - as I was in VG.

Instead of spending more money on VR, I'll donate 50€ to zezo.org. I'll come back when the VR boss has come to his senses.


@Cvetan, should you ever want to start your own sailing game platform, please contact me. I'm a die-hard Lisper, but I'll do C, Java, Javascript or even PHP, and I can tell a bowline from a thief-knot.


BR
Michael (Raumzeit)
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-26 | 23:15:29
Cvetan,

I perfectly make the difference between you, publisher of this website, and the users of your websites (by the way VR players).
I accept all comments, suggestions, everything. No problem until it is polite.

Your statut, Cvetan, is different, you are using our IP with no agreement. You are responsable.

We listen too players, and frankly speaking I want to thank JohnT, Your Mom and Alexandria for the quality of the feedback. We will take that in account, but trust me, this is not easy. An example: We had like a revolution when we said we want to remove boxes and makes wind interpolated in space years ago. We had a strong belief, we did it, and it is just obvious today.

I am not saying the community is always wrong, not a all, but when you have so many players, taking account of feedbacks is not an easy thing as they are much more that what you can see here, very much more. Please consider this, you are hundreds aiming for victory, thousands are competing, tens and soon hundreds of thousands are having fun, and my job is to satisfy them too. In other words, most can drive a car, few a F1. If our game was "only" for F1 drivers, would you have the same excitement if you were trying to win a race with 300 competitors ?

Let me share something personal. In the 90's I have been pro sailor. Not a star, not a looser too :-) When we finished second at Tour de France 96, we were a serious team, very different to the previous years with my friends. We won many regattas what was new for me, but it was so challenging. We were working so hard on the boat to beat the others. And it was part of the pleasure. When we sailed the Tour de France in the previous years, we spent more time at sea, but it was much more confortable. I mean, to win, you have to deserve it, unless it is a not a great pleasure.

Virtual Regatta Offshore is a nice game. I want it fantastic and have millions of happy players.

Phil
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-26 | 23:26:15
"Please consider this, you are hundreds aiming for victory, thousands are competing, tens and soon hundreds of thousands are having fun, and my job is to satisfy them too"

It was exactly like this 3 years ago...

;)
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 23:38:39
For me, stealing from a business means hurting its profits.

I don't see how I'm hurting your profits by publishing information that should already be made public in a sailing game - the boat polars.

I can run the site like a general router, on user submitted polars and waypoints. Whose responsibility will it be then? Will you be satisfied?

Or do I make YOUR users a favor by making their lives easier, because not everyone can spend 10K on real-life weather routing software, or has the time to learn how to use it?

Do Adrena and Expedition infringe your IP because they can be used by skilled sailors to plan their route in your game?
Post by iconPost by andrel | 2017-10-31 | 16:27:01
Exactly so. I am reading posts and some of Philipe's excuses but still, cannot understand him. Very simple calculation, more SATISFIED players even for less $ will bring a bigger profit.
Post by iconPost by Toppen | 2017-10-26 | 23:49:38
I think this post says it all. In order to make the waste majority happy, things like lottery, playing cards (and soon the possibility to change cards with other players etc), manipulated weather etc were implemented. None of these new features has anything to do with offshore sailing, in fact, some of the features that existed earlier and were offshore sailing components has been removed.

The new VR is nothing for the "300 F1 drivers" (I consider myself as one of them, correct or not) but for those just interested in a few hours of amusement now and then.

So, my decision a few weks ago to leave VR (as a regular player) was right. I now know more about the "behind the scenes" thoughts that has led VR to move away from offshore sailing into something else.

// Toppen
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-27 | 01:13:22
Dear Phillippe,


I would like to offer a few comments on this last message.

1. "An example: We had like a revolution when we said we want to remove boxes and makes wind interpolated in space years ago. We had a strong belief, we did it, and it is just obvious today."

Removing boxes and introducing interpolated winds was an advance towards game realism. Reducing the interaction time to one minute is also a progress in the same direction, as well as updating the wind every 6 hours.

Adopting a minimum wind threshold does not add to realism, and makes me question what is the belief behind this change. The same goes for the polar diagrams - a tool that could be quite useful for every player level. I wonder if your team from the nineties had all those great results without knowledge of the expected performance of their boat(s).

2. "I am not saying the community is always wrong (...)."

This sounds odd, defensive. You could go through the argument without it. I mean, we are all aware that there are hundreds, thousands of voices to hear. The problems here are: (a) VR does not offer any official discussion forum, as it did in the past; (b) the feedback often lacks empathy towards the client and its frustration (it was the case in the Clipper, when the player that was just ahead of me, in 11th, reportedly lost tens of places due to a mistake of VR and got no redress at all.

3. "you are hundreds aiming for victory, thousands are competing, tens and soon hundreds of thousands are having fun, and my job is to satisfy them too."

And almost all of us have a life out of the game and a need for some sleep, regardless of our goals. In real life, you have a team to share tasks and limit fatigue. This is not the case here, and I would like you to take this fact in consideration.

4. The status of your relationship with Cvetan needs to be resolved. If you have something against the current state of affairs, be clear - and do better than he does, for VR has so much more resources. Or open boat and weather data to everyone, and embrace third-party applications instead of fuming against (some of) them in their homes.

5. You say your game is not for F1 drivers only. But this is exactly what you are going to have - teams and autopilots are natural responses to the present situation.

This is it for the moment.

A bientôt.
Post by iconPost by Swedesailor | 2017-10-27 | 05:03:53
Well said there Alexandria !
Post by iconPost by blkhd48 | 2017-10-27 | 01:37:26
Phil.

Let me share something personal with you. I too have raced professionally and won a lot of regattas. You make a point of telling us that you came second in the Tour de France so I presume it is something that you are proud of. I was quite proud of coming 11th in the last leg of the Clipper race, but through a fault in your programme I was placed 140th. and you refuse to reinstate me because it will 'penalize the other players'. I wonder how you would have felt if they took your trophy away and scored you as 10th because they didn't want to penalize other boats.
VR was a nice game. It is no longer fantastic. I won't be one of your millions.

Dean
Post by iconPost by Whitbyweather | 2017-10-27 | 16:46:58
Phillipe
I hope you will listen to what I have to say, because I am perhaps the biggest fan of VR of all the sailors. I am severely disabled and this game has allowed me to participate in a sport that I love, meet like minded people from all over the world and to make many new friends even though I cannot leave my home.
But I cannot participate anymore because the new operating system will not run on older computers and even new machines run slow and crash. The latest game interface is poor, with inaccurate mapping no polar diagrams and a card system for purchasing extra options more suited to a casino. The previous system of being able to buy extras at any time allowed sailors to control their expenditure whilst SO players enjoyed their own competitions within the overall race.
This forum is full of in-depth constructive comments on the game, I hope you will read and act upon them because there is no VR forum and the responses to email questions leave much to be desired.
All the players want is to enjoy the superb game that is Virtual Regatta, make friends with other sailors and be supported by friendly and caring staff.Please restore the interface to its former glory, open the forum, reintroduce the chat line of old and listen to your customers.
We are on your side, please take note of what we say and put things right
Kind regards,
Chris
Whitbyweather
Post by iconPost by Rostef | 2017-10-27 | 22:54:52
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-26 | 23:15:45
Mr "Super" Guigné,

You have created an amazing game !

You can destroy it, it's up to you but what a pity...
I've start as an SO and then try to get better, get knowledge from Paco/VRTool and get better and better, loving to search the best route... and go sleeping or fishing or sailing...
I'm sad to see this evolution to a "simple" android game...
You have gold in your hands/mind, listen those who made VR a big game...

Philippe
Post by iconPost by babou | 2017-10-26 | 23:51:44
"What an asshole" indeed!

and "with a litle bit of practice..." the circle will become a square
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-26 | 23:56:24
Please keep the dialogue constructive. It's better for everyone.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-26 | 23:52:20
Bonjour Philippe,

Ce n'est pas correct de traiter Cvetan ainsi.
Il me semble que ce qu'il a réussi à faire avec Zezo, VR en a très largement profité. Il a permis une conquête, et une fidélisation au jeu. Sans lui, beaucoup n'auraient pas pris les options tout au long de ces années, et perduré aussi longtemps dans le jeu.

Ce que beaucoup de joueurs ont du mal à comprendre, ce sont les choix anti-clients. Ces joueurs ont le sentiment que les choix de VR sont guidés à la fois par le besoin de tromper les joueurs pour éviter que ce soit toujours les mêmes qui gagnent (c'est raté pour l'instant), et également par l'appétence du gain (normal pour ton entreprise, je l'admets).

En fait, aucun choix ne se fait en faveur du client, que ce soit pour le conquérir ou le fidéliser, et je crois que c'est pour cette raison que beaucoup de joueurs sont déçus car ils se sentent trahis, pas écoutés, pas respectés et méprisés. Ce qui les a fait venir sur ce jeu et adhérer se désintègre dans cette 3ème version (réalisme, simplicité, vents mini de 4 Nds, cartes de loterie...). Il faut vraiment qu'ils soient passionnés pour résister et continuer à jouer, et je les encourage à continuer, mais inévitablement, beaucoup se lassent.

Ne te créé pas d'ennemis là où il pourrait y avoir des alliés à ton business. Change ton regard, considère Cvetan comme un contributeur, ainsi que les joueurs qui te donnent des avis constructifs, et je pense que ça se passera beaucoup mieux, pour la communauté et ton business ;)

Bien à toi
Emmanuel
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-26 | 23:56:30
Bravo!
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-27 | 00:36:53
C'est ça Manu !!!

Mr Guigné,
L'impression, le ressenti des fidèles (la communauté) est le manque de partage, de communication. Comme si Jupiter faisait comme il veut sans écouter la base.
Sans les outils externes à VR, je n'aurais jamais payé pour les options !
Et j'ai toujours espéré que VR nous fasse un jeu de courses au large avec les technologies du 21 ième siècle : Ordinateurs, table à carte (VRTool), routeur (Zezo etc), traceur (Paco).

Mais à chaque évolution, c'était un pas en avant, deux pas en arrière !
Je me souviens d'avoir vu les ISO il y a quelques années, c'était bien...

Maintenant on a quoi ? Une loterie, et des pochettes surprises même en payant !!

Vous voulez fermer l'accès aux outils externes alors qu'il ne tient qu'à vous d'en proposer de meilleurs pour rendre ce jeu génial !

Bon nombre de ceux qui "râlent" le font dans le bon sens et bien des propositions seraient bonnes commercialement.

Un exemple : le VendéeGlobe 2016 était loin du succès annoncé, non ?
La VOR 2017 est elle plus suivie que la dernière ?

Mr Guigné, écoutez vos clients...
Post by iconPost by LaSemillanteTPN | 2017-10-27 | 15:57:13
Tout à fait d'accord Emmanuel.
Cela fait des années que je tente d'expliquer à VR en général et Philippe en particulier que l'une des richesses de VR est constituée par les aides apportées par zezo, VRTool, Pacotool et quelques autres.
J'ai tenté de le convaincre qu'au lieu de considérer ces bonnes volontés comme des parasites, il devrait au contraire leur faciliter la tache en les prévenant à l'avance des modifications prévues par VR qui risqueraient de les perturber.
Au contraire, il fait tout ce qu'il peut pour rendre son jeu moins agréable, comme s'il voulait décourager ses clients.
Et la présence permanente du fric, avec les cartes, est insupportable.
Quant il en vient à critiquer Cvetan de manoeuvres déloyales, c'est un comble, mais c'est aussi crétin. Il suffit d'observer les échanges du jeu sur le réseau pour trouver les données.
Ceci dit, il est vrai que si nous ralons tant, c'est que VR est un bon jeu auquel nous tenons.
Hervé.

Totally agree Emmanuel.
I've been trying for years to explain to VR in general and Philippe in particular that one of the riches of VR is the help provided by zezo, VRTool, Pacotool and a few others.
I tried to convince him that instead of considering these good intentions as parasites, he should on the contrary facilitate their task by telling them in advance of changes planned by VR that might disturb them.
On the contrary, he does everything he can to make his game less pleasant, as if he wanted to discourage his customers.
And the permanent presence of money, with the cards, is unbearable.
When he comes to criticize Cvetan unfair maneuvers, it's a shame, but it's also stupid. Just observe the game exchanges on the network to find the data.
Having said that, the truth is that VR in a good game and thet we love it.
Hervé.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-27 | 17:02:42
Hervé,

Je reconnais bien là ta vigueur littéraire ;-) mais si nous demandons à Philippe d'être correct, il faut que nous le restions aussi. Et si en plus nous souhaitons qu'il nous écoute, alors restons courtois.

A part le mot "crétin", je ne retirerai rien des idées que tu exprimes... à ta façon ;-)
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-27 | 17:16:31
Moi aussi je t'aime Hervé
Post by iconPost by Catsilver | 2017-10-27 | 17:27:43
Je aussi signe tout ça que tu a dit.
Post by iconPost by Sideshow | 2017-10-27 | 00:31:35
Hi all,

What a lively debate!

Remember that, among all the negative comments, at the heart of this is a game/sport/race that we all love to follow and participate in, and this VR game (and others like it) does a pretty good job of making this possible. The game has developed a huge amount over the last few editions. Not everyone loves the cards etc, but if it makes it possible for some more people to have a chance of racing near the top and getting the full experience then it's probably a good thing in general. If the 4 knot limit stops some people getting bored and leaving the game when they stop for a day in no wind, then it's not necessarily bad - it's not quite as realistic as the real thing, but it's the same for everyone.

To me, the one major issue with the game right now is the increasing cost of the programming cards (e.g. 1 card for 1st one, 2 cards for 2nd one, etc) which makes it very hard to program a course with more than a few course changes. This makes it very hard for anyone who has a job, goes to school, goes sailing for the day, wants some sleep etc, to participate at any reasonable level in the race. I would think a simple change to make each program cost 1 card would encourage more people to play and would benefit the masses, not just the top 100. I suspect a lot of the negative comments above would die down with this one change.

Anyway, good luck all for the rest of the leg. Just one more sleepless night ahead :)
Sideshow
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 00:47:24
+1, with an additional remark. Selecting the exact nav aid you buy. With the "Nav pack" now you can buy 3 decks and get about 5 programmings and 25 waypoints.

And no, you can't replace TWA programming with waypoints in a constantly changing fully interpolated wind field like you could with the square grid.
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-27 | 08:41:19
+1 to this. If you fix the following two things, >90 % of the complaints will be gone:

1. One card per programmation/waypoint, not the increasing amount as it is now
2. Ability to choose what cards you buy
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-27 | 12:55:10
"Not everyone loves the cards etc, but if it makes it possible for some more people to have a chance of racing near the top and getting the full experience then it's probably a good thing in general."

I am not following you, Side. How exactly does this card system give more people the chance to race near the top?
Post by iconPost by Journeyman27 | 2017-10-27 | 01:02:35
Phillipe

I echo what other people have said. I typically only take part in the VORG because it has been a race I have followed for years for a number of reasons, and using ZEZO makes it possible to play and have a life.

The main issue for me is the randomness of the cards. I, probably like many other poeple have ended up with lots of help cards which do not seem to come up with a sensible route; lots of stealth cards (can't be bothered becaue I personally think it's a gimmick and adds nothing). The wind cards are frustrating because as soon as I have used one and my laptop wakes from a short sleep, the weather function is gone and I have to use another card.

The main bugbear for me were autosail cards. For a while I had none; afterspending 11.99 EUR and buying a few packs of 10 random cards - none. Then none of the barrels had any. Eventually a few turned up and then a few more - enough probably to finish the leg. Without them, I would have given up immediately and throught, what a waste of money.

By not being able to guarantee essential things such as this, ruins any chance of being competetive. For others it has been waypoints and programming cards - and I agree with the comments that these are expensive to set any kind of sensible course if you have to work, rest or play. As I said in another post, if you want to compete, you don't go out racing with your worn out old sails when everyone else has new ones.

Clearly you have invested a lot into developing Virtual Regatta and I applaud you. However, any company that does not listen to it's customers and their ideas/feedback is doomed to fail. It is hard to do this as an entrepeneur/business owner because your customers will inevitably tell you things you do not want to hear. However, your customers may have the ideas that when added to your own, make a truely great product rather than an ok one. That's when you generate customer loyalty and brand advocates. I think everyone is aware you have a business to run and salaries to pay - it is just a case of finding the right approach which works for everyone.

I for one will probably do the second leg, but if the card system continues as it is, I'll probably stop there, which will be a shame. Because, although not a regular player in other races, it is nice to come back and see familar names to try and beat them.

Fair winds to all and I wish you well Phillipe with continuing to develop VR.

Jez
Journeyman27
Post by iconPost by optimiste06 | 2017-10-27 | 18:00:56
Fully agreee. And to show that we, the customers, can act after having talked, I have annouced on the EZ Group forum that I will not participate to the next 3 races. Beeing a paying customer most of the last races, I'm am very disapointed by the Card System. And by the way, without Zezo I could not work, eat, sleep and stay in the top500. I will bypass the Clipper, Mini and Transat JV and maybe come back for the next leg of the VOR.

Marc/optimiste06
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-27 | 11:51:32
Quelqu’un qui joue en dormant 6 ou 7h par nuit ou qui ne se connecte pas au moins une fois/heure ne pourra jamais gagner une course, c'est donc réservé à une "élite".
Post by iconPost by LaSemillanteTPN | 2017-10-29 | 04:45:08
A vrai dire, dans l'ancienne version du jeu, dans laquelle le nombre de WP ou de lignes de programmation était simplement limité à 10 à un instant donné, c'était faux.

En se connectant aux quatre changements de vent dans les cas complexes, et en en sautant un de temps en temps si la météo était stable, on pouvait atteindre le top 100, et même le top 10 parfois.

En effet, si les vents et les polaires sont connus, rien de nouveau ne peut arriver entre deux livraisons de météo, donc inutile de surveiller, puisque rien ne pourra remettre en cause nos décisions.
Donc dans cet esprit, le jeu est compatible avec la vie familiale.

Par contre, l'introduction d'éléments perturbant cette logique, comme les rafales, ou le coût des progs et WP par, 1, 2, 3, ..., les bidons toutes les 8 heures (et non 6 coïncidant avec les vents) rendent le jeu beaucoup moins compatible avec une vie normale, trop coûteux humainement.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-27 | 12:29:53
Et quoi qu'on en dise, aujourd'hui le jeu est extrêmement lié à Zezo.
Une grande majorité de ceux qui participent au chiffre d'affaire du jeu utilisent Zezo. Si Zezo disparaît, VR sera en difficulté, et personne ne le souhaite.

La remise en question est une qualité. Si ce routeur a pris autant d'ampleur, c'est peut-être tout simplement pour combler un manque que le jeu n'a pas su combler.

Il est donc préférable de le considérer comme un contributeur, et de ne pas se tromper d'ennemi.
Post by iconPost by JACOMINO | 2017-10-30 | 12:52:56
Bien dit MANU. MERCI CVETAN
Post by iconPost by Whitbyweather | 2017-10-27 | 14:28:20
Phillipe
I hope you will listen to what I have to say, because I am perhaps the biggest fan of VR of all the sailors. I am severely disabled and this game has allowed me to participate in a sport that I love, meet like minded people from all over the world and to make many new friends even though I cannot leave my home.
But I cannot participate anymore because the new operating system will not run on older computers and even new machines run slow and crash. The latest game interface is poor, with inaccurate mapping no polar diagrams and a card system for purchasing extra options more suited to a casino. The previous system of being able to buy extras at any time allowed sailors to control their expenditure whilst SO players enjoyed their own competitions within the overall race.
This forum is full of in-depth constructive comments on the game, I hope you will read and act upon them because there is no VR forum and the responses to email questions leave much to be desired.
All the players want is to enjoy the superb game that is Virtual Regatta, make friends with other sailors and be supported by friendly and caring staff.Please restore the interface to its former glory, open the forum, reintroduce the chat line of old and listen to your customers.
We are on your side, please take note of what we say and put things right
Kind regards,
Chris
Whitbyweather
Post by iconPost by Swedesailor | 2017-10-27 | 15:21:48
I am with you on this one Chris "thumbs up"
Just hope Philippe and his guys at VR listen to us and give us a new game for leg 2.


Mattias

Swedesailor
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 15:31:33
It seems that the shiny new wind display is eating most of the resources (when the waves splashing at the beaches are removed in the low-quality setting), so adding an option to hide/freeze the wind swarm could make the game interface somehow usable on lower-end device. Also limiting the max FPS, but I'm not familiar with Unity internals.

I'm sitting here on the console of former zezo.org server that was happily providing 10-day routing to 200-300 users and it struggles with the geme UI.

The laptop freezes to the point where you can't move the mouse pointer because it lacks discrete GPU, and the Intel HD graphics.

Which would adds another $1000 to game entrance fee to buy modern gaming rig. And this is no 3d-shooter running at 60 FPS in HD mode.
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-27 | 17:12:38
Hi Chris,

So so happy you can practice our common passion with VR!
Unity3D (the techno we use "client-side") is not good to export WebGL (when you play from a browser), it is a problem for us, we always fight against that because it need too much ressources.
I can suggest you to play via an app (faster). I you want to stay on computer, Firefox is the fastest browser for Unity3D, install it, it's free.

Enjoy!
Philippe
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 16:55:12
Yeah, Philippe. You like competition so much that your main requirement for any cooperation is a non-compete cause - like I would not only not create a competing game, but also not provide routing for competing games.

About the "hand that feeds me" .... Even if you were paying me full time leading developer salary I'd still stand against you and tell you what I think. My bosses have heard a lot of criticism over the years.

Honestly, I think that the most damage I can do to your business is shut down the router and take away 1000 loyal paying customers with me.

The thing that stops me is not the pity $20 ad income per day - it barely covers the expenses. It's the loyalty for my (and your) customers.
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-27 | 17:27:15
It seems I had a problem to publish my answer. I do it again:
$20 per days during 10 years => 20x10x365 = $ 73 000

$ 73 000 is not bad for someone who is "helping for free" and giving me loyalty lessons...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 18:57:52
Yes, on a good day. $20 in a slow month.

That would be true with a major race running 30x365, but they don't.

So divide by three, subtract the dedicated server fee = 100x10x12 and you'll get closer to reality.
Post by iconPost by blkhd48 | 2017-10-28 | 04:31:13
Philippe. You deserve loyalty lessons. Cvetan's deserves his $20 a day and more because he never fails to answer a question or solve a users problem, whether it's from a paying customer or not. You on the other hand, have 'support' that if they reply at all it is either 'there is nothing wrong' or 'refer to the help section'.
This site provides help, answers to game related questions and a tool that levels the playing field for us all.
The fact that you're posting on here proves that VR is not providing the support that it should be providing.
Yes I'm bitter and twisted and if you were doing your job you should know why.
Dean
Post by iconPost by Marty6 | 2017-10-30 | 07:09:22
Then why haven't you adopted it in your game or as an tool offered by VR, if it such a great business model? Probably just laziness and nothing to do with cost versus income.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 17:15:10
Another thing that I want to make clear is that I provided a tribune in this forum for players to criticize VR precisely because VR does not provide such forum, moderated or otherwise. If there was VR forum I would not bother and would try to limit the discussion topics.

But I don't believe in shutting peoples mouths when you don't like what you hear.

VR had that clause on their TOS that you can't speak against them. Probably still does, but I can't say because the TOS is only available in french. But VR can't impose their TOS on the world.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-27 | 17:22:00
Oui Philippe,

Tu pourrais ajouter des courants, des ris, , des baleines... mais écoute ce que tous ces gens ont à te dire, écoute...
...
Ils veulent un jeu qui soit suffisamment proche de la réalité pour qu'ils puissent se projeter, mais qui conserve également un confort, et que tout ne soit pas décidé contre eux-mêmes. Même s'il y a toujours eu des raleurs, le niveau de mécontentement atteint 1 niveau qui n'a jamais été aussi élevé. Et il me semble que ce point de mécontentement général, il te froisse aussi. Ce n'est jamais agréable de voir que les choix qu'on a fait ne sont pas appréciés.

A toi de trouver le bon compromis, d'être à l'écoute, il y a plein de moyens pour cela ;-)

Manu
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2017-10-27 | 17:58:48
The thing is, when people complain, you still are quite ok, because they care. When they stop complaining, that's when you're in trouble, because they don't care, and you'll never see them as customers again.

[google translate]
La chose est, quand les gens se plaignent, vous êtes tout à fait ok, parce qu'ils se soucient. Quand ils arrêtent de se plaindre, c'est quand ils ont des ennuis, parce qu'ils s'en fichent, et vous ne les verrez plus jamais comme des clients.
[/google translate]
Post by iconPost by Catsilver | 2017-10-27 | 18:48:36
TOTALLY AGREE. PERHAPS RACE 2 IS YOUR LAST OPPORTUNITY TO AMEND AND KEEP YOUR CUSTOMERS IF YOU WANT TO. THINK ON THAT.
Post by iconPost by gtlog | 2017-10-27 | 18:58:25
Bonjour à tous
Je fais partie des créaateurs de www.regattagame.net
Les raisons qui nous ont amené à créer cette plateforme étaient de:
-retrouver la convivialité; qui a disparu de VR
-proposer un jeu complet entiérement gratuit
-limiter autant que possible l'usage des routeurs afin que tout le monde soit à ègalité
Nous nous attachons actuellement à ce que la plateforme ne nécessite pas contrairement à VR une machine dernier cri
Ceci n'a été possible que parce que nous sommes une équipe de bénévoles
Il est certain qu'un site comme VR nécessite des moyens financiers importants et par contre-coup l'usage de la pub et le paiement des options.
Cependant je ne comprends pas la non considération des joueurs et le manque de réactivité.
Nous ne cherchons pas à concurrencer VR mais à proposer une autre façon de jouer dans une bonne ambiance
Vous serez les bienvenus
Post by iconPost by gtlog | 2017-10-27 | 18:59:25

Hello everybody,
I'm part of the developper team of www.regattagame.net
We build this game with the aim of:
- find back the friendliness that disapeared from VR
- offer a game with full options for free
- try to reduce the benefit given by routers in order to find back a bit of equality
We take care that the game interface remains light so that you don't need an state of the art super computer to play, contrary to VR.
This has only been possible because we are a team of volunteers.
It's obvious that a game such as VR needs a lot of money, and therefore advertisement and paid options.
However, I do not understand the lack of consideration of the players and the lack of reactivity.
We are not trying to compete with VR, but to offer a different way of playing in good mood.
You'll be welcome
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-27 | 19:00:10
Mr Guigné,

Je pense que vous pouvez même compter sur des "bénévoles" pour améliorer le jeu.
Le fait qu'on retrouve "toujours" les mêmes devant est comme dans toutes les compétions.
Et le fait est que ça se revérifie même sur les nouvelles version.
Car n'oublions pas qu'il y aura toujours des geeks pour trouver des failles...

Redonner l'accès aux outil (Paco/VRTool etc) c'est tirer le niveau des joueurs vers le haut, leur donner un espoir de progresser... Libre à eux de les utiliser ou pas.
Et surtout offrir un échiquier où chacun peut "jouer" et choisir une tactique.
Ces outils ne vous coûtent rien, au contraire, ils contribuaient à l'intérêt du jeu.
Quand ou joue aux échecs en ligne, personne de vous empêche de trouver de l'aide sur le web !

Concernant le coté business, le système actuel n'offre pas aux plus riches un top 10 voir 50 et c'est tant mieux. Par contre il favorise les inactifs, donc une autre "élite".

Pourquoi ne pas proposer plusieurs niveaux d'options ?
1) Options du bateau (performance/voiles)
2) Options de confort (prog/WP/régulateur/voile auto)
3) Toutes options (1 + 2)

Il faut juste interpoler les prix entre la course la plus courte et la plus longue (le VG).
Perso, je pense que pour le VG, 30€ pour toutes les options (3) serait acceptable.

Bref, j'aimais ce jeu et je souhaite pouvoir y jouer encore, à condition de pouvoir jouer...

Philippe (aussi)
Post by iconPost by jaco | 2017-10-27 | 20:53:09
Ce fil de discussion est passionnant et utile; merci Cvetan de l'avoir ouvert et laissé se développer.

Merci à Philippe de lire et participer aux échanges. S'il y avait un forum sur le nouveau VR nous n'utiliserions pas celui-ci comme cela. VR devrait remercier zezo de cette initiative au lieu de le critiquer.D'ailleurs votre présence ici montre bien que vous y trouvez quelques chose de bien.

Philippe, je ne suis pas vieux sur VR que j'ai découvert dans le dernier Vendée. J'ai pris du plaisir à apprendre à l'utiliser, j'ai progressé puisque je suis vers la 300e place actuellement et naviguer en virtuel me rappelle bien des plaisirs de navigation réelle.

Vous savez, probablement que nous sommes nombreux à être nous aussi des chefs d'entreprise ou l'avons été, nous avons appris la nécessité d'écouter les feed-back des clients et d'en tenir compte. C'est parfois gênant et difficile car nous sommes souvent certains, comme entrepreneur, que nos idées sont les bonnes !
Il faut de l'humilité pour être chef d'entreprise !
Ecouter les clients est important, particulièrement lors d'implémentation de nouveautés, cela permet de sentir si nos intuitions ont été justes. Impliquer les clients dans les développements en tenant compte de leurs feed-back est encore plus essentiel, on peut en faire des partenaires ! Vous semblez être dans une toute autre dynamique, malheureusement.

Si vous incluiez des outils de navigation efficaces dans VR, les navigateurs n'iraient pas les chercher ailleurs ! Pourquoi ne pas créer ouvertement et simplement des partenariats avec ces prestataires de services ? Dans la gestion contemporaine, on sait à quel point le partenariat est profitable à tous les acteurs, bien plus que le combat.

Plusieurs des derniers changements ont abaissé nettement la qualité de la simulation de régate, ils ont été très bien analysés et présentés par plusieurs navigateurs (et pas des moindres) dans ce fil de discussion !

Un élément a été encore peu discuté, celui des anciens SO.
Comme beaucoup de joueurs de VR, j'ai navigué parfois SO parfois AO, n'ayant pas le budget pour me payer chaque régate en AO. C'est encore moins possible maintenant, alors que les outils achetés ne permettent pas un aussi bon contrôle de la navigation. L'ambiance qui marquait le groupe SO, son forum, son classement spécial permettait à un très grand nombre de personnes de participer à la réussite de VR en ayant du plaisir ludique. Supprimer le groupe SO c'est aussi supprimer cette ambiance conviviale, c'est supprimer un terreau de plaisir personnel, c'est enfin supprimer une sorte d' "école de voile virtuelle" car les navigateurs s'échangeaient de nombreux conseils. Quel dommage pour nous, mais surtout, du point de vue de l'entrepreneur, quel dommage pour VR ! Vous devriez au contraire développer ces possibilités; commercialement parlant, je suis certain que vous seriez gagnant.

En dirigeant mon bateau sans équipage (je sais que d'autres bateaux naviguent en organisant des relais), passer des nuits entières sur le pont et y monter chaque heure ou 3 heures au plus pour ajuster les réglages si l'on veut faire un résultat dans le 1% des partants n'est pas possible sur le long terme. Nous avons une vie familiale, un travail, d'autres loisirs ... Et ces éléments sont prioritaires bien évidemment. Par exemple, dans la 2e nuit de cette étape de VOR, j'ai priorisé ma vraie vie et ai perdu 2 heures et + 600 places, alors que j'avais acheté un full pack pour pouvoir régater avec les meilleurs, ça ne ce serait pas passé avec l'ancienne formule.

En fait l'évolution que vous avez donné à VR semble être une très bonne mesure contre la dépendance au jeu ! Si c'est le but, je vous encourage à poursuivre. Un pu d'humour ne fait pas de mal.

Par contre, si vous voulez développer VR avec vos clients, dans une direction qui les satisfasse, et vous aussi en retour, je vous invite à effectuer un bon coaching et une remise en question.

Je ne sais pas si je participerai à la suite de l'aventure, j'attends de sentir votre réaction à toutes nos remarques qui vous ont été offertes, gratuitement. Encore une fois, votre présence dans ce fil de discussion me permet de garder quelque espoir.

Bien à vous, Philippe, avec mon estime pour votre l'histoire de votre entreprise et votre engagement.
Bien à vous Cvetan, et merci de vos initiatives et de la qualité de votre travail technique et relationnel.
Merci aux autres commentateurs, amateurs ou "maîtres" en navigation virtuelle, pouvoir vous lire et échanger avec vous fait aussi partie du jeux, comme au vrai club house, autour des régates.

Jacques
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-28 | 01:17:43
+1
Post by iconPost by SnowPetrel | 2017-10-27 | 21:16:55
Bravo! M. Jacques (jaco), bravo! "Par contre, si vous voulez développer VR avec vos clients, dans une direction qui les satisfasse, et vous aussi en retour, je vous invite à effectuer un bon coaching et une remise en question."

Tu chantes ma chanson, si un pétrel des neiges pouvait chanter.

Christian (SnowPetrel)
Post by iconPost by Muikku | 2017-10-27 | 21:21:17
Philippe,

Most will be happy if you fix the cards (no lotto), one card/scheduled shift or offer programming as a leg option and show the polars (and some other info).

Many people use computers so saying "use the app" is arrogant. It's like saying to mobile users "use a computer". Find a technology that works for all.

Making the interface more usable is a plus (try sending a message to another sailor and click backspace). So would being able to find another player on the map. Or having the other boats location update.

Listen to the players. We spend a good chunk of our time on this game. It's important to us and should be important for you.

Muikku, a virtual sailor since 2011
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-27 | 21:46:03
Yes, Chris has been with us (me and VR) since at least 2011. He states that he has a disability (he has trouble even using a mouse) and that answer is worse than arrogant.

There are things in UI design called usability and accessibility. Like using the +/- keys to steer your boat or providing a entry box to type (or even speak, if you wish) your heading or TWA.
Post by iconPost by GHOSTBUSTER | 2017-10-27 | 21:33:42
Bonjour
j ai bien lu et je suis d accord avec vous. Je joue depuis le début et la le jeu est devenu injouable passer 24/24 sur l ordi c est pas pour moi comme beaucoup de joueur j ai toujours été AO j espère qu il vous réviser le jeu passer 2 à 3 heures par jour est plus raisonnable et passer plus pour passer plus de temps avec la famille.
je vous souhaite une bonne soirée
Patrick
Post by iconPost by GHOSTBUSTER | 2017-10-27 | 21:35:04
Hello
I have read and agree with you. I play from the beginning and the game has become unplayable spend 24/24 on the computer is not for me like a lot of player I've always been AO I hope he revise the game pass 2 to 3 hours a day is more reasonable and spend more to spend more time with the family.
I wish you a good evening
Patrick
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-28 | 01:12:37
+
Post by iconPost by fadoue | 2017-10-28 | 02:08:11
Philippe

Je vois que ici nombre de tes meilleurs clients et de tes meilleurs promoteurs sont ici. Nous sommes choqués quand tu attaques attaques Cvetan, car c’est grace à lui si nous sommes clients VR.
Oui nous sommes accros à VR. Oui nous adorons ce jeu.
Egalement nous aimerions être parfois entendus, Quand nous faisons une proposition, la réponse est toujours «  Cela n’est pas envisagé pour le moment. »....

Je sais que dans une Pme de 10personnes, l’orientation client et l’ »user expêrience «  ce n’est pas facile à analyser, mais s’il te plait, écoute un peu les champions qui ont parlé avant moi.

Je suis aussi à ta disposition soit amicalement soit professionnellement pour faire avancer les choses, mais s’il te plait, écoute un poil les champions au dessus.

Merci

Francois
e-Jobs-Observatory
Aquitain
....
Post by iconPost by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-10-28 | 10:34:49
M. Philippe Guigné,

Je me permet de vous interpeller ici car il semblerait que vous soyez plus assidu à ce forum qu'à votre propre forum (Club House VR) !!

Je pense faire partie de vos très anciens clients, insatisfait mais "accro" (depuis 2007 en SO, puis AO depuis le VG 2012 ou j'ai finis 128ème), banni de votre forum à maintes reprises pour avoir simplement soulevé quelques questions désobligeantes sur les "robots injecteurs d'ordres" à une époque puis sur les fameuses "rafales" plus récemment.

Comment osez-vous ???

De quel droit venir ici déverser votre fiel sur un de ceux qui fait sans doute parti de vos plus grands contributeurs, comme les Grand DIC, Ricard34 et autres...

Comme d'autres l'ont suggérés plus haut, vous feriez peut-être mieux de le remercier et de réfléchir à une possible et constructive collaboration plutôt que de venir ici "régler vos comptes".
Si vous avez quelque chose de tangible à reprocher à Cvetan, faites le devant les tribunaux, pas ici et avant d'avancer des propos diffamants, vérifiez vos informations.

Bien cordialement.

KelpiedSinglePlayer
Post by iconPost by 92gege56 | 2017-10-28 | 11:39:55
Bonjour à tous et encore merci à Cvetan pour sa contribution à VR.
Je dis bien contribution car, si ce site n'existait pas, je n'aurais jamais joué et accroché à VR.
Lorsque j'ai commencé, il y a quelques années, j'ai cherché à comprendre le routage et avait été impressionné par ceux qui allaient vers le cap en rasant le Brésil, contrairement à ceux qui, comme moi, avec peu de sommeil et avec les seuls moyens VR, descendaient l'Atlantique vers l'Afrique. Comment pouvaient-ils faire? J'ai cherché sur le web et ai trouvé zezo.
Et là, simplicité, facilité, convivialité, tout ce qui fait qu'on s'amuse...et qu'on fasse un don.
Les versions successives de VR ont bien essayé de bloquer l'usage de zezo et autres outils(paco/VRtool), mais les geeks ont réussi à contourner les barrières mis par VR pour utiliser ses options payantes, mais d'un niveau tellement rustre par rapport à ce qui existe à coté que c'est de l'argent foutu en l'air si on n'utilise pas les outils annexes.
Jusqu'à aujourd'hui, je m'étais bien amusé et étais devenu accro pour participer, sans résultat mirobolant(1840ème leg1), mais pour simplement finir, et l'avoir fait!
Nota: je n'ai strictement rien dépensé vers VR (ah le bon temps des classements SO), mes seuls dons, minimes je le confesse, ayant été pour les outils annexes.
Compte tenu de l'attitude de "super" Philippe sur ce blog, de la régression en terme de jeu (loterie plutôt non?) de la version VR actuelle, je ne vais pas démarrer la suite, mais continuerai à suivre ce blog pour voir si VR évolue dans le sens de ses "clients".
Bonne continuation et encore merci à Cvetan.
Gérard
Post by iconPost by hophop | 2017-10-28 | 12:28:17
bonjour philippe. Je ne suis pas là pour critiquer cette nouvelle version, mais pour moi, c'est terminé. Je fais partie des gens qui bossent et qui dorment les nuits, sans les options de confort tels quelles étaient par le passé c'est injouable pour moi. Je te souhaite de trouver un nouveau public. Je tiens à remercier Svetan pour ton routeur qui m'a permis de réussir une honorable 12 ème places sur le vendée globe. Sans zézo VR ne serait pas ce qu'il est. Hervé skipper de little big boat.
Post by iconPost by haliz | 2017-10-28 | 12:40:08
Want a lot of fast money - open an online casino. Spit on people. You are making steps in the right direction.
===============================
Voulez-vous beaucoup et rapidement de l'argent - ouvrir un casino en ligne. Crachez sur les gens. Vous faites un pas dans la bonne direction.
Post by iconPost by Rostef | 2017-10-28 | 13:12:35
Dear all in this forum, dear Cvetan, dear Philippe

I found my way to VR beacause I was interested in the vendee globe because of the Siwss competitor Bernard Stamm. Back in the days, it was still with 'boxes'. I hated it because I found it no way realistic to play the sewing machine to advance faster. So against many others, I very welcomed the interpolated winds.
Prior to the last VOR I started studying pilot charts, polars, ran routings days before departure to get an image of the different possibilities etc.
In one word, I was hooked! I only play the big regattas because I need that connection to a real race to make it interesting. I welcome you to move and set ice gates according to VOR race control to keep it as real as possible (although it cost me a better finish in cape town last edition).

Philippe, you did an awesome job in many ways, thanks for that. During the last edition everybody complained about the fact that the game was not playable from a mobile device at all. The app was crap. So now you did respond to our feedback and made it even. The app got much better, browser worse.
I'm not getting into the discussion about the cards too much, that should be reconsidered. I managed to just finish leg 1 at 8th position with no extra cost. I just used the 400coins given for the start and the rewards I recieved from the prologue for the full pack. So I consider myself as SO in this leg. But the price is still too high. I'm more exhausted than after nine months of racing three years ago.
I don't mind spending money for something I like. But I would like to decide what I spend it on. If I want programs, then I buy programs. If I need waypoints (like around porto Santo), I want to buy waypoints. spending money on the 'box of chocolates' is not correct.

The 4knots minimum: I can understand the source of the decision, and can accept it, even though I think it is wrong: I learned it the hard way, sailing into the doldrums too far east and getting stuck looking at all the others passing me. But that's sailing and it is part of the game. What will happen in the next leg, I hope race commitee will put a waypoint at fernando de norronha again. I would not want to see hundreds uf players hugging the african cost or sailing straight through the st. Helena high because they know they will at worst make 7kn boatspeed...
Experiences like mine make us better navigators, we start caring about wind systems, how they could move etc. Please don't take this away from us.

I agree to all the feedback about changes already made that would keep your 'core community' happy. I'm in retail myself, as a buyer for outdoor goods. So yes, I have work apart from playing VR. And I'm well aware that my 300 best and most fidele customers are producing a big percentage of my turnover. So before trying to make everybody happy (it's not possible) I make sure I keep my most loyal customers. You already received feedback from your Nr.1 Player (your MOM), the winner of the last VVOR (ghostbuster TPN), your very long and loyal Manu (meteo) and Hervé (la sémillante), please don't treat them like they were just 1 of thousands.

In addidion, I would appreciate one simple little thing. Please make the cursor showing the coordinates, even it it is the wind cursor. So that at least I can see with the trajectory (ah, in 6hours, my position will be xy) That would really help. And yes, the windrose: let us play with it before we confirm our new course. Sometimes I would just like to see what would happen if I changed the course by 5 degrees, or check if I'm already on max. VMG for rouding the island. Let us see and then decide if we want to confirm that course (on an iphone6 I can not really control it very well since I am right handed and block half of my screen trying to 'hold and rotate').

Last but not least, I fully agree to the fact that Zezo is keeping us playing Virtual regatta, only thanks to him it is real fun. Thumbs up for your work Cvetan!

So, as a conclusion, it's not him against you or we against you Philippe. It's we for all of us (the players), for you and for Cvetan. We can be one big success, if we're all working in the same direction. To create an amazing game for all of us.

Fair winds to all of us. But I need some rest now....

Stefan/Rostef
Post by iconPost by feriber | 2017-10-28 | 14:31:23
Stefan/Rostef!!

Your history, is exactly like many others (mine endeed), and our feelings are exactly the same as yours (sadly, not the race results ;) ).

Congratulations to all members.

And of course Cvetan: MANY, MANY THANKS.
Post by iconPost by assonant | 2017-10-29 | 14:21:58
tip that works on iphone6
just tap above or below your TWA in the rose wind and it will move you your direction by step of 1 degrees
Post by iconPost by jpafonso | 2017-10-31 | 15:01:30
Full thumbs up to your comment and suggestions. This as been an amazing discussion, much by merit of "super" appearance, but I can not resist to support LOUDLY your "simple" suggestion, particularly the windrose: it would have be great to have a way to confirm a route change, or maybe a mode to allow experimental changes in the course. The first form might elicit complains because sometimes we want to change the course fast, but other times, we want to experiment leisurely without worry with the penalty. And bottom line, this should be a boon for the server, if it eliminates unintended interactions with it, and for the client if part of the present client contention comes from communications delays (I guess it might).

I also agree with your 4knots issue, even if it plays against me (in case I fall in those zones). I tend to believe that with interpolate winds, this will not be an issue as could have be, but even if it is, I don't think the game gains from downplaying the consequence of committing errors. Some skipper I'm following, went north of Porto Santo and had to return to turn by south... should VR implement an automatic way to avoid that, in the same spirit? Great errors are also great stories! This doesn't mean we shouldn't do nothing about it. 4knots appears to be excessive, maybe 1knot is not. And the radio option could get much more value if it warns about impending dead wind zones (or impending crashes by the way, instead of doing it after the fact). But my point is, the real boats in this regatta don't have these advantages: no sure wind unless they avoid the dangerous zones. I know they operate with a lot more restrictions (more forbidden zones, etc), but adding one more difference is not going to follow them better (imagine a calm zone the real boats will avoid while the virtual ones will happily cross).
Post by iconPost by andrel | 2017-10-31 | 18:07:38
Hi, Stefan here fully agrees with you. Only I wanted to add for the moment at least. I hope, actually I am sure, that Philipe&co are reading all here and will make conclusions, if not- VR is no future.
andrel
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-10-28 | 15:05:24
Bonjour Philippe,
Je suis du même avis que les intervenants ici. Je pense que le jeu que vous avez créé avec votre équipe répond à 99 % des attentes de tes clients (c'est-à-dire nous), il suffit de voir le succès du jeu. Mais dans les 1 % restants, il y a des options qui sont particulièrement irritantes pour nous, passionnés de ce jeu. Et il ne faut pas modifier grand chose dans ces 1 % pour ramener la sérénité :
- Avoir l'option de choisir ce qu'on veut dans le 'navigation pack', donc que l'on puisse choisir la répartition exacte entre waypoint et prog
- Que le nombre de cartes prog nécessaires soit progressif et non exponentiel (3 cartes pour 3 prog, 4 pour 4 prog, etc...)
- Que l'ouverture des bidons corresponde au changement météo (soit 6h ou 12 h)
- Qu'il y ait un règlement bien précis et les changements soient notifiés aux joueurs lors que chaque course. Tout bon jeu a besoin d'un bon règlement où les règles et les informations sont précises. VR est un bon jeu, mais il reste trop de flou sur les règles et la manière dont les bateaux vont évoluer.
- Avoir un lien vers une boite à idées qui seraient relayées vers les programmeurs, ça pourrait leur permettre de trier celles qui sont les plus demandées.

Concernant la météo, la limite des 4 noeuds est trop haute et fausse un peu trop la course par rapport à la course réelle, je comprends la logique derrière (empêcher que certains joueurs s'engluent dedans pendant des jours). Un compromis pourrait être de 1 ou 2 noeuds, pour avoir un compromis à la belge !

Concernant le site de Cvevan, je pense que vous vous trompez lourdement, il n'est pas du tout un concurrent, il répond simplement à une demande qui n'existe pas (ou plus) sur Virtual regatta: avoir un routeur simple à utiliser, un forum de discussion où les joueurs peuvent d'exprimer, et les informations nécessaires sur les changements que vous ne partagez pas.

Marc.
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-10-28 | 21:24:27
Merci Marc et bravo pour cette 6ème place.

Vous savez si j'ai décidé d'intervenir ici c'est bien parce que votre avis m'intéresse. Au plus haut point même et je
vous remercie de nous aider. Et puis vous savez on lit tout ce qui se dit, il ne faut surtout ne croire dans une tour d'ivoire.
Mais on ne peut pas faire plaisir à tout le monde, même si on l'aimerait, en tous cas on cherche dans cette direction.

Quelle est la raison pour laquelle vous proposez d'aligner les bidons sur la météo, je ne vois pas vraiment ce que ça apporterait ?

A bientôt,
Philippe
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-28 | 21:34:15
I'll answer that as a fellow player. You have to already be awake every 6 hours in order to be competitive. Then the bidon servers cards every 8 hours and you miss one of three offers served, unless you can stay awake 24/7

So make it once in 7 hours or one in 11. End result is the same.

And that's the entire problem with the card system. You already have to logon every 6 hours, by the nature of the game. Every additional stimulus to log on is just seen as obstacle.
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-10-28 | 22:39:07
If you cannot understand the logic of the request to link the barrel opening to the weather updates, then please consider changing the clock/timer so that the barrels are always available at the same times each day; in the current version the timer restarts when you open the barrel;this means that today if I open a barrel two hours after another competitor, all later barrels are delayed by 2 hours, and there is no way I can keep track of what time to log on for the barrel - even assuming I had the real-life option to log on at that time.
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-28 | 22:52:13
Bonsoir et merci Mr Guigné pour cette réponse qui me semble aller dans le bons sens.

Y aurait il une une possibilité de dialogue constructif ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Good evening and thank you Mr Guigné for this answer which seems to go in the good sense.

Would there be a possibility of constructive dialogue?
Post by iconPost by LaSemillanteTPN | 2017-10-29 | 05:08:21
Philippe, juste permettre de ne se connecter pour router et entrer les programmes que 4 fois par jour.
Ce qui est essentiel pour garder le jeu familial, comme vous le disiez à une époque.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-10-29 | 12:15:34
Bonjour Philippe, merci pour votre réponse.
Concernant l'ouverture des bidons, la réponse a été donnée par Hervé, John et Cvevan. La plupart d'entre nous travaillons, et se connecter 4 fois par jour pour les changements de météo est déjà parfois assez compliqué. J'ai personnellement une connection 4G qui ne fonctionne bien qu'à certains endroits de mon lieu de travail, donc tout besoin de connexion supplémentaire en plus de celle nécessaire pour voir le changement de météo est un problème.
Je ne suis pas un fan des cartes-surprises, mais je peux comprendre le coté ludique qu'il peut avoir pour certains. Rien n'empêche une cohabitation des 2 systèmes, des cartes surprises d'un côté et un pack navigation de l'autre pour ceux qui ont vraiment besoin de cartes spécifiques, dans lequel on peut choisir des WP, des PROG ou des cartes autosails.
Sinon, personnellement, je préfère le panneau de commande de cette nouvelle version qui est mieux adapté pour les smartphones et la possibilité de prendre une partie des voiles en utilisant ses crédits sans devoir investir dans un pack 'toutes options' est une vraie amélioration à mon avis, ça lisse la différence SO/AO.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2017-10-28 | 15:24:23
Hello Philippe,
I have the same opinion than many of the players here. I believe that you and your team have created an awsome game that have 99 % of the features the people want. But the last 1 % is really generating a lot of frustration for many of us. And I don't think we need to change a lot to keep your customers happy.
- Need to be able to choose what we want in the navigation pack : 10 Prog, 9 prog-1 wp, etc
- Number of cards to set-up the route is progressive, not exponentiel.
- Barrel opening correspond to weather changes time, so 6 or 12 h.
- The rules are well established, and the players have enough information when there is a change. A good game requires good rules and precise information to know how to play the game. And VR is a very good game, but we miss precise information and rules on how the boats will move.
- Have a link to some sort of idea box, so players can send some request directly to the people who are doing the programming, so they could figure out what suggestion come most often.
Related to the weather, I believe the 4 knots limit is too high, and this would impact too much the virtual game vs the real sailers. I understand what is behind, maybe a good compromise would be 1-2 knots minimum.

And last but not least, the router that Cvevan is great, I believe you misunderstand a lot what he is doing, he is clearly not a competitor, he is just responding to a demand to something that does not exist in VR and players want : a simple router, a forum for discussion where players can express their mind and the informations that miss in VR, informations on the things that change and that you don't communicate in advance.

Marc
Post by iconPost by Catsilver | 2017-10-28 | 23:23:17
Guys, we do not need to ask any one to put himself in the hard task of making a new game platform. Look, if this selfish Philippe does not accept he made a simple lottery game instead of a sealing game...do not worry, we as players have a very nice option with Liveskipper (I am plyaing it right now, same name Catsilver, and I have not interest in this company, even I do not know who they are). Liveskipper game is fair, you know that the wind comes from NOAA every 6 hours, you have the polars, and a lot of realistic navigation tools.....the game interpolates the wind only in the geographic coordinates (right this is a limitation if you like), not time; but it is very well adapted to each one possibilities.....Monday series (one week duration race) Friday series (one weekend duration race) specific long term races (to challenge your endurance)....and also the records always opened for everyone to try when the weather conditions improve the opportunities.

So, we only have to migrate there, Cvetan, consider it....this people in liveskipper are sailing people, do not care so much about been the only ones (as VR does) they just try to pay their costs and be alive for fun. The same I am looking for...just fun.

On the contrary, what can we say about our Philippe, now, after reading his oppinions I know he is a very competitive man but has not idea about business. Philippe, for me, you have your last opportunity before second leg VOR departing from Lisbon, if you insist in this stupidity I will just tell you BYE BYE.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-28 | 23:37:46
But Liveskipper does not do the VOR, and there are reasons behind that. Real world is complicated place.

This thread has turned into a way to bring some feedback to VR, positive or otherwise, but mostly constructive, so let's keep it that way.
Post by iconPost by Catsilver | 2017-10-29 | 00:05:23
Cvetan, yo have read it, not just feedback....lots of people are saying they are going to leave this lottery. So, let me put in other way: competition (what needs competitors) is always constructive.
Post by iconPost by Catsilver | 2017-10-29 | 00:12:07
Dear friend, Real world is something I know very well. Trust me.
Post by iconPost by stakk-GD | 2017-10-28 | 23:49:15
Hi All!
I started playing VR in 2008 (Vendée Globe ) and even if the game was not realistic because of "wind cells", I was happy to compete with few friends or colleagues just for fun and it was really nice :). It was also a way to follow the real race. I am a sailor and a gamer too and it was really fun. What we expect from a game...

Then I improved my game experience and meet players and join the Green Dragon International Racing Team. This team was created by David (some may remember him). This group (still exist with low activity) is made of players from as many different countries as possible and other groups too (TPN, RKN, others), honouring the 2008's boat Green Dragon competing in the VOR 2008-2009. The interface of the game, at this time, was for sure simple but efficient. VRTool was already existing and the game interface was embedded in the VOR web page from which it was possible to watch VOR sailing videos when waiting for iteration update and discuss in chat/forum in an embedded way. That's what is missing in VR since many years : develop the community of players (Mr Guigné closed and reset several times the VR forum, Why?).

Green Dragons organized the first team challenges (thanks to David) and never this has been taken by VR as a game feature (why?). Always players had to organize the challenges by themselves. That is a way to make the community sharing fun. I never understood why it was not taken by VR. The community was the strongest and richest thing in the game. Paying for me was not an issue unless you get fun back of course.

The game evolved (VR 2) but it was not clear for me what was the objectives... Money many? Kill some player groups? Secret VI formula (finally not so secret)? Control insolent players? Strong offended ego reaction? No clear communication from VR staff, never (why?). Now the game turns to a kind of clash of clan game with pay to play concept and at the end... No fun at all. Sorry, this is not for me... I am frustrated because the game was nice and many players said "le jouet est cassé".

Zezo is, according to all, a master piece in the success of VR. Zezo gave to all a router feature and allowed the level of players to improve and it set all on equal footing. Without Zezo, only players well equipped with their own router could hope to be in the top 100 players. And Zezo allows as well all to understand choices and strategies. At the end to understand the game rules. Now VR want to hide polars and game rules (Why?). I will not play a game I don't now the rules. Race instruction existed some time ago, they were suppressed (Why?).

I joined a small group of players who think like me. Regattagame is a free game. It is developed by a team of volunteers. It is simple for sure, but fun and people are nice. Rules are well known and published.

What can we say now? Is the story closed? What a shame...
Post by iconPost by stakk-GD | 2017-10-28 | 23:50:12
BTW, I French but will not translate my above post... :)
Post by iconPost by WretchedExcess | 2017-10-29 | 03:52:55
GOOD LORD! That was a lot of reading. I have to say I agree with most of what has been said. I do have a few questions.

1. Where did all the rankings go? It used to be I could see all the sailor rankings and where I stood. You used to be able to look for people and see where they finished in various races. Maybe I am just getting dumber with age but I cant find this info anywhere.

2. Along the same vane, where did all my friends go? Did they just get disgusted (With me or VR) and jump ship?

3. I seem to remember seeing a 'Join Now" for leg 2 when I last logged in. Now I cant find a link to it anywhere. I am wondering if this post was taken to heart by VR and they are busy implementing suggestions. Or did they just say F it. When is the start of leg 2, and does anyone think that there will be changes?

In closing I asking the same questions of VR, (which is not an easy thing to do.)

Wretched Excess
Post by iconPost by Alexandria | 2017-10-29 | 04:18:19
R1: The information you want is no longer available.

R2: VR dismantled all the social connections we had through their site.

R3: Leg 2 is supposed to start on November 5. Changes are the only thing it is certain in this game... :)
Post by iconPost by WretchedExcess | 2017-10-29 | 05:21:08
Thanks for the answers. Now i have to ask why the hell did they do that. I have people from all the world that I keep in touch with going back to the 08/09 VOR.What is the best way to voice my opinion. with VR. It is not like they go out of their way to be accessible.
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-10-29 | 20:19:56
You can email support - there is a link at the bottom of each FAQ on tje 'help' page. I can at least say that I have received a response to each input, though less useful than hopoed for. I understand from other posts here that they have a presence on both Facebook and Twitter, but I avoid both..
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-29 | 10:06:59
Génial,

Si je fais 1 synthèse des remontées, on retrouve en premier lieu le confort. Toujours être vigilant à ne pas dégrader le confort à chaque nouveauté.

- progs: revenir à 1 coût raisonnable (1carte / prog) et pouvoir choisir des progs à acheter. C'est essentiel pour celui qui travaille et / ou ne veut pas se désocialiser et jouer la gagne. C'est la priorité des priorités.

- vents mini: 1 ou 2 Nds max. J'ai fait qq simul de routage pour la descente de l'Atlantique, et il arrive parfois que ça passe par le Golfe de Guinée. Ça fait désordre ...

- temps entre 2 bidons: même si je ne suis pas fan, mais bon, on peut faire qq concessions, 6h voire 7h max entre 2. Ça permet de conserver 3 / jour avec 1 petite marge de sécurité pour ne pas manquer 1. Surtout que l'analyse météo revient au minimum 4 fois / jour.

Il ya également plein d'autres petites choses, mais qui ne sont pas des priorités pour l'instant. Enfin, il me semble ...

Merci Philippe pour ce début d'ouverture. Je pense qu'ici ne t'en va, bien au contraire.

Bien à toi.
Manu
Post by iconPost by Gondolero-LDLN | 2017-10-29 | 10:31:51
Merci Cvetan pour votre contribution au jeu.
Sans ZEZO, probablement plus de VR pour moi.

Merci VR aussi pour m‘ avoir séduit depuis le début ( pas trop longtemps pour moi, 3 ans ), mais hélas, le jeu a évolué le rendant petit à petit moins “jouable“.

Le grand problème étant pour la plupart d‘ entre nous l‘emploi du temps.
La nouvelle version demande trop de connexions pour être moyennement compétitif...24/7 si on envisage top 20.
Je vois pas le côté familial là dessus.
Le nombre d‘ options s‘est multiplié aussi ( voiles, polish, foilers etc + côut des cartes ) multipliant le prix de courses aussi.
Maintenat on dépense plus d‘ argent, masquée par les fameuses “cartes“.


Le prix des options n‘a jamais été un obstacle pour moi, AO depuis que j‘ai découvert le site ( VOR 2014/2015 ), tous me amis ont abandonné pour une ou autre raison.Je suis le seul à continuer et à me faire plaisir.Pas sûr pour combien de temps
Le coût des courses pour les joueurs compétitifs “moyens“ commence à être considérable et seulememt les tops peuvent envisager courir sans dépenser ( trop ) d‘ argent.

Si avant on jouait presque toutes les courses, maintenant on va choisir quelques unes, les meilleures au classement VSR, le minimum de legs à la VOR ou à la Clipper pour califier... Pas je que voudrais.

Bref, j‘ espère des améliorations dans le jeu qui me permettent jouer en me faisant du plaisir sans pour autant perdre à ma vie quotidienne

J‘ espère que mon Français soit à l‘ hauteur, beaucoup trop de temps sans écrire et parler. ;-)


A bientôt,


Pablo
Post by iconPost by Marcilly | 2017-10-29 | 12:04:21
Ouahhhh un vrai roman… et que vois je Mr Guigné himself qui vient débattre… Cher Mr que ne le faites vous donc pas sur votre site, cela fait 8 ans au moins que des gens se posent des questions, vous posent des questions, certes parfois de manière un peu agressive car ils aiment ce jeu, ou ils aimaient devrais je dire, et à chaque fois c’est le silence qu’ils ont eu comme réponse et parfois même le mépris.
Ce que je vois c’est que la reconnaissance n’est pas le point fort de Mr Guigné, venir critiquer Cvetan ici même alors que sans Zezo nombre de joueurs auraient déserté VR depuis longtemps.
Je ne vais pas recommencer le débat avec les SO, mais quand vous annoncez des chiffres ronflants de participants aux organisateurs de courses réelles c’est bien le contingent SO qui fait le chiffre à 90% en moyenne, et dans les 10% restants nombre de AO « amateurs ».. C’est juste pour montrer le peu d’égard que vous avez vis-à-vis des gens.
Vous aviez fait un jeu simple que ce soit avec les cases puis avec la première version en vents interpolés, un jeu accessible à tous où chacun pouvait aller chercher son plaisir.. combien croyez vous qu’il y ait de personnes qui recherchent vraiment la victoire ? très très peu.. les gens voulaient s’amuser et là vous nous avez pondu après déjà une triste version VG 2016 une nouvelle version qui s’assimile donc à un jeu de loterie et où la présence est plus que jamais nécessaire.. la stratégie et le plaisir ont disparu..
Je connais les impératifs d’une entreprise, et le besoin de renouvellement réclamé par une partie de la clientèle, mais cela n’empêche pas de rester à l’écoute des gens et surtout de respecter les clients, car ce sont ces mêmes clients qui vous font vivre Mr Guigné, il ne faut pas l’oublier.
Moi je navigue maintenant chez LiveSkipper (pseudo Smiticks), ah c’est plus intime certes, la plateforme a quelques bugs mais pas plus et pas moins que celle de VR, il y a des courses en permanence avec des bateaux différents, il y a des instructions de course.. oui oui.. il y a des classements .. oui oui.. il y a des challenges.. il y a des discussions ouvertes.. oui oui… Oh tout n’est pas parfait non mais il y a de quoi prendre du plaisir.. Avec un afflux de nouveaux joueurs cette plateforme pourrait être vraiment être un endroit où les joueurs de tout calibre pourraient s’y retrouver avec grand plaisir et vivre leur passion de la course à voile virtuelle et de sa stratégie qui va avec..
PS : j’ai oublié de remercier Cvetan pour tout son travail ; thanks a lot Cvetan for your job
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-10-29 | 13:40:49
@meteo79niort

I haven't thought about that, but a player winning the Clipper route along the African coast would be a disaster.

Half of the beauty of the game is in a sense you are racing against the real fleet. That also makes it really educational.

The danger can be offset by a gate at Fernando do Noronha, but even then the shortcut across st. Helena high will work quite differently with and without minimum wind speed.
Post by iconPost by coucouelo | 2017-10-29 | 15:32:15
Monsieur super.

Vous avez chassé tous ceux qui rendaient votre plateforme jouable.
De peur que l on vous "vole" votre bébé,vous l avez défiguré.
Reste un jeu de regate virtuelle qui ne se suffit pas à lui-même.
Reste un jeu de loterie sans aucun intérêt.
Post by iconPost by zedstar | 2017-10-29 | 17:36:43
Merci M. Guigné d'avoir exprimé ici votre point de vue.

J'ai humblement œuvré, à souder la communauté VR, en participant à plusieurs groupes et challenges organisés par les joueurs, partageant les outils / astuces dont j'ai profité pour espérer en claquer une. zezo, VrTool étant la base.

Cette communauté de joueurs aurait apprécié d'être consultée ou simplement informée sur vos choix, ils auraient peut-être été mieux compris.

Pour moi le jouet est cassé.
Post by iconPost by BlackDiamond | 2017-10-29 | 19:13:40
Je vais tester LS, départ à 18h...

Mais quel beau fil de discussion !!!

En espérant que Mr Guigné en tienne compte !

C'est aux meilleurs de faire progresser les plus faibles, c'est comme ça que j'ai progressé dans mes passions et sur VR. C'est aussi comme ça que j'ai toujours partagé mes expériences pour faire avancer les autres...

La communication chez VR est désastreuse pour qui se targue d'être une "communauté".
Depuis la fin des cases, j'ai l'impression que VR met la charrue avant les bœufs.
On change quelques choses sans les remplacer par quelques choses de mieux,
on change les règles sans avertir les clients avant le départ,
alors qu'il serait si simple de dire les choses, de communiquer avec cette "communauté" qu'on vante être la plus grande... (grâce à qui ???)
Dans une communauté, les décisions ne sont pas unilatérales.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will test LS, departure at 18h ...

But what a beautiful thread of discussion!

Hoping that Mr. Guigné take it into account!

It is the best to progress the weakest, that's how I progressed in my passions and on VR. It's also how I always shared my experiences to advance others ...

Communication at VR is disastrous for who prides themselves on being a "community".
Since the end of the boxes, I have the impression that VR puts the cart before the horse.
We change a few things without replacing them with a few things better,
we change the rules without notifying customers before departure,
when it would be so simple to say things, to communicate with this "community" that boasts the greatest ... (thanks to whom ???)
In a community, decisions are not unilateral.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-10-29 | 22:49:57

@zezo

Oui, ce routage est parfois proposé s'il y a peu de vent au sud-ouest du Cap Vert, et grâce à un angle plus favorable dans l'alizé de sud-est.

Merci encore pour tout ce que tu fais. Aujourd'hui, je ne connais le % de joueurs qui comme nous, paient sur VR, mais je suis presque sûr que 80% de ces joueurs utilisent Zezo.
Si 1 jour Zezo n'existait plus, je n'ose même pas imaginer la suite du jeu. Et j'espère qu'on en arrivera pas là, et que Philippe l'a compris.

Faisons lui confiance, ainsi qu'à son équipe, pour qu'ils tiennent compte des propositions qu'on leur a fait.

Manu.
Post by iconPost by Caledonia | 2017-10-30 | 11:31:03
To Philippe and Cvetan,

Thank you for the use of this forum Cvetan. For some reason I was unable to register my boat (Barquerme) so I am using my boat name from the 2011 VOR to be able to contribute here.

SO I AM WRITING AS Barquerme (not Caledonia).

It is with interest that I read the discussion here as I was approached by Celine Biernacki from VR about 15 months ago. She was wanting me to consider being an English language translator/liaison person for the English speaking players. It wasn't possible for me to consider this position as I don't speak French, my computer skills are not perfect, and I have never actually sailed.

Reading the discussion here I think it would have been a very demanding job!?

So with that said if VR considered me worthy enough to approach perhaps it is worth me adding my thoughts.

It is a good game, but like all good games it has it's faults, as perfection is rarely attainable:
In NZ we have a saying "if it isn't broken don't try and fix it" and I feel VR has made this mistake with VR3. I believe the card system and the 4kts wind speed minimum are examples of this, and not appropriate if VR are trying to make the game as realistic as possible.
The messaging system was better in the previous model, and the new limit of 20 friends is another negative.
But my greatest dislike of VR3 is that it now seems impossible to make a competitive race start if I am not at my computer. Most race starts are at 2/3/4am for me and I like to use the schedule/programmation. But it appears the pre-race programmation has a flaw. Other players have had similar experiences.

In business it is my experience that very successful businesses are rarely criticized, and most importantly listen to their clients. That is their major clients not their minor clients.
Philippe it is all very well to be entrepreneurial (and I applaud that) but to ignore your most esteemed clients comments and complaints may not advance your aim to produce the "beautiful game". (Apologies to any football lovers but I am from the land of the All Blacks).

I consider myself to be a serious, but flawed player. I've never sailed, I'm not an expert on a computer, my phone won't accept the App, and I like to sleep at night, so despite many years of playing VR any thought of a podium finish is more of a dream than reality.
The game needs to be fun, fair, and competitive.
I accept there will be the odd bug, internet problems, etc etc, that is life as we know it. No problem!
I am not considering leaving the game, BUT PHILIPPE PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR CLIENTS?

Cheers,
Andy.
Post by iconPost by Toppen | 2017-10-30 | 23:42:19
Andy,

It's funny - I was also approached by VR and asked if i could translate some info from English to Swedish. I translated everything during my Summer vacation in July but after that i haven't heard a thing, i even reminded the person and asked if the translation was ok but never got an answer... not sure if i would do that again to be honest...

I mean, why help someone that isn't interested...

// Toppen
Post by iconPost by SlyStarLeRetour | 2017-10-30 | 20:19:52
Bonsoir à Toutes et Tous, Hi All,

I am a newbie. I discovered only VR during last Vendée Globe and since then i am addicted...

Unfortunately with the new version I am not able to find out who my neighbours are (for instance if i am ranked 1000th, I'd like to see where the 10 or 20 or 50 sailors behind and before me are).

Indeed, it is by watching other players that i learned and progressively (slowly)improved.

I am fascinated by the top VSR sailors/players and respect them all. I keep watching their paths to better understand their way to guess the best option.

Without being anymore able to find the players/sailors around me, i can not improve nor contact them to share experience with them.

I have read the above messages and it seems VR does not listen to their customers : why not ? Is there a reason why ?

In my business, if you wish to expand you have to listen to customers ; customer assessment is key to achieve customer satisfaction : by the way, I am wondering why there is no more the forum on VR site since the new version (and thus we have to come here to chat.) Thank you Cvetan for welcoming us here.

Excuse my french! :)

Sylvain (SlyStar)
Post by iconPost by lemulot79 | 2017-10-30 | 22:09:46
Hi SlyStar
the VR forum exists, but has been moved, it will be difficult because almost everything in French:

http://forum.virtualregatta.com/
Post by iconPost by SlyStarLeRetour | 2017-10-31 | 06:41:44
Bonjour LeMulot et merci.

Comme dirait De Funès "... but alors, you are French ?"... :)

J'ai bien essayé le lien ci-dessus mais je tombe sur ce message :

"Le site à l’adresse http://forum.virtualregatta.com/login/ a subi une violation de protocole réseau qui ne peut pas être corrigée.

La page que vous essayez de voir ne peut pas être affichée car une erreur dans la transmission de données a été détectée.

Veuillez contacter les propriétaires du site web pour les informer de ce problème."

....et ensuite ?

Merci de votre aide.
Sylvain.
Post by iconPost by Michel | 2017-10-31 | 00:29:00
Bonsoir à tous, il est 23h20 à mon PC ;
Je viens de lire ce chapitre du forum et de tomber sur les contributions De M Guigné sous le pseudo super.
J'évacue de suite sa nostalgie des Guignols de l'Info du temps du Président Chirac , pour passer à une idée que Cvetan pourrait mettre en route une semaine, un mois ou un trimestre :

LA GRÉVE §§§§

Accessoirement pendant ce temps libre il pourrait développer son routeur pour LIveSkipper qui propose ses météo à 0,6,12,18 h UTC ( chaque partie extrapolée en 2 fois 3 heures.)

Normalement début décembre après les chutes de participation à la transat, clipper, Vor , boulangerie on pourra causer.
Post by iconPost by evan44bzh-BSP | 2017-10-31 | 01:55:44
c'est vrai que la nouvelle mouture VR ça nous coûte une blinde, ça nous fout toutes nos nuits en l'air, les mecs dans les 20 premiers de chaque course, je sais pas comment ils font: divorcés? celibataires? sans enfants? pétés de tune? à la retraite? la sortie de gibraltar sur la derniere manche VOR, fallait être veilleur de nuit pour ne pas perdre 300 places.
Post by iconPost by ultrine | 2017-10-31 | 02:41:00
Bonsoir Philippe,

Mon principal fait d'arme est une citation VRnews lors du VG2016 !
I am one of your random player... I never ear about zezo before today but Cvetan seems to be a good guy. I found this topic searching "polaire virtual regatta" on google.

I pay for options, play instinctively without routing system, and no matter what, I'm not accountable to anyone. But a doubt settles. I pay for a boat preparation and ground twice because I have no prog cards after gibraltar and don't want to buy cards few hours before the arrival (even if you pay them back at low cost price). No luck with the barrels, no network access this WE, zigzags in the middle of the night incompatible with my life and prohibitive card cost... not a funny race.

Bilan : Pourquoi payer une préparation de bateau pour ensuite s'échouer ? On peut se laisser entrainer dans l'achat de cartes. Ca marche une fois. Mais la fois suivante, on se dit qu'on ne va pas payer la prépa : pour qu'elle ait du sens et éviter des regrets, elle induit une obligation de payer des cartes... Pour les courses à venir je m'apprette donc à ne payer que les cartes et me dit : quel intérét de payer des cartes quand on a pas le bateau qui nous plait ? Donc je ne paye plus rien.
Même quand on a des moyens financier ce n'est pas open bar. Quand tu payes un abonnement canal+, tu ne t'attends pas à payer un surcout à chaque fois qu'il y a une scène intéressante ou à 5 minutes de la fin du film pour connaitre le dénouement.

Conclusion : Pour jouer, je veux pouvoir payer (ou pas) un pack de programmations illimitées parceque j'en ai besoin dans mes contraintes perso. Si je ne l'ai pas, je paye pas de prépa et le jeu ne me plait plus car mon bateau est un demi-bateau.

Avoir du vent à 4 noeuds mini ? Pourquoi ? Peu importe la réalité, un vent trés faible dans le jeu n'a jamais été pour moi un synonyme d'angoisse et de frustration mais d'espoir que les éléments jouent enfin ma faveur et bloquent ceux qui sont devant moi ;-) ! (ah ... la remontada de Thomson sur Le Cléac'h !!)

Supprimer les polaires ? Elles étaient présentes au VG et çaa n'a pas fait fuir les gens. Je comprends le soucis de simplification, de s'attirer un large public pour plaire à vos partenaires. Mais attention à ne pas lacher la proie pour l'ombre. Les curieux et les effectifs gonflés ne sont pas des consommateurs fidélisés qui payent ? Pour moi l'accés aux polaires participe d'une possibilité de mieux comprendre, de progresser, de bidouiller son truc et donc de fidélisation de nombreux joueurs. Comme il coute toujours beaucoup plus cher de trouver de nouveaux clients que de retenir ceux qu'on a déjà, pas évident de comprendre ce choix radical de supprimer un élément immersif auprès de vos clients les plus fidèles.

Merci d'avoir lu un point de vue parmi des milliers sur des choses à revoir qui masquent de bonnes idées de cette nouvelle version.

Ultrine
Post by iconPost by limelight | 2017-10-31 | 11:56:01
Cher Philippe,

J'ai abandonné votre jeu depuis le dernier VG. Je continue de suivre le forum de VR de temps à autre juste pour voir ce qui ce passe et rien ne m'incite à y revenir jouer. Le pire pour moi sont les indications fausses. On est forcé à faire des tests pour trouver la vraie vitesse de son bateau car rien des instruments de bord n'est correct, ni la direction ou force du vent, ni la vitesse du bateau.

Sur mon bateau, le vrai Limelight, mes instruments marchent correctement.

Maintenant je joue tranquillement sur LiveSkipper. Les polaires sont disponibles librement, leurs outils sont très intéressants, ils donnent les loxodromes et orthodromes, ils donnent aussi les isochrones sur 24 heures pour permettre de choisir une route. Ils ont un 'scheduler' permettant de changer de direction à des instants déterminés mais entre 2 points on peut continuer de naviguer avec un TWA fixe (régulateur d'allure). Tous ces petits détails rendent la navigation beaucoup plus facile que chez VR.

Cvetan dit qu'il ne font pas de VOR, mais ce n'est pas tout à fait exact, il n'y a pas de course VOR officielle, mais les utilisateurs eux s'organisent, en choisissant un challenge où le bateau est similaire au VOR, ils conduisent leur bateau au départ avant la course, mettre l'ancre et s'inscrivent sur une liste externe... et hop, la course est partie.

Tout compte fait, je suis très satisfait de LS, je leur donne même de l'argent de temps en temps ce que je ne faisais plus sur VR depuis longtemps. Ils ont des petits bugs aussi, mais rien de bien méchant.

Et ils ont beaucoup de courses!!!

John (aka Limelight_bzh)
Post by iconPost by sylvainmeteo | 2017-10-31 | 19:57:43
Bonjour à tous,

Je suis un joueur occasionnel de VG (j'ai fait le VG 2012 et 2016, respectivement dans les 100 000ème et 10 000ème), je suis arrivé à la fin de VG avec les cases de vent et j'ai été plutôt satisfait des changements (vent, polaires... etc), et je joue un peu plus régulièrement depuis le dernier VG.

Sur ces dernières évolutions, j'ai aimé le geste pour les sans options, et toute la préparation du bateau avant course permettant différentes et de nombreuses stratégies supplémentaires.

Par contre, j'ai moins aimé les cartes, et surtout la disparition de la communauté, du forum... etc, les classements sans options ont disparu et j'en suis triste...

J'ai lu tout le fil, et j'ai vraiment aimé une bonne partie des interventions constructives qui y sont pour moi de bon sens et réalisables.

Je vais témoigner de mon expérience dans les jeux virtuels (certes pas de voile, mais quand même) pour vous dire ce que j'ai pu voir sur une dizaine d'années.

Je joue à plein de jeux virtuels (vélo, course automobile... etc), et certains jeux sont supposés êtres has been mais grâce à l'investissement de la communauté (par exemple je dessine les courses cyclistes), ces jeux tiennent 10/15 ans (en tout cas toujours à l'heure actuelle) alors que le graphisme est digne du début des années 2000 (jeu flash).

La situation de Philippe me rappelle ce qui se passe sur mon jeu de vélo (Radsportfreaks pour ne pas le nommer), le développeur était pas très à l'écoute et la communauté malgré les critiques constructives se sont peu à peu lassés et le nombre de joueurs avaient fini par chuter de moitié (on pouvait jouer gratuitement, mais il fallait payer 10€ par mois pour faire toutes les courses, ou alors être un contributeur régulier en modération, création de courses ou élaboration du calendrier, ce qui était mon cas).

Il s'est entêté pendant 2/3 ans supplémentaires à faire des évolutions qu'on attendaient depuis autant d'années, mais malheureusement, ces évolutions sont arrivés après cette vague de désertion. Depuis on a pu le convaincre de léguer le jeu à d'autres développeurs très actifs de la communauté qui avaient du temps à consacrer pour faire évoluer le jeu alors qu'il savait pertinemment qu'il n'avait pas beaucoup de temps à donner à ce jeu, ce que la communauté avait compris au moins 5 ans plus tôt. A cause de l'entêtement du développeur principal, on avait perdu une vraie occasion de se poser en leader parmi les jeux virtuels de vélo après que le jeu avait eu un départ canon.

Sans ce soutien sans faille de certains, le jeu serait déjà mort depuis 4/5 ans, date des dernières évolutions, les nouvelles auront lieux dans les mois à venir.

Dans un autre jeu de cyclisme, j'ai vu aussi une communauté s'effriter et le développeur finalement au bout de 3 ans abandonner un jeu qui était victime de plus en plus régulièrement de bugs et une fuite de la communauté car il mettait des semaines à les réparer.

Je vous souhaite Philippe d'éviter ce schéma que j'ai connu ailleurs, et surtout NE SOUS ESTIMEZ PAS l'importance de la communauté, les gens qui viennent découvrir un jeu regardent de plus en plus comme critère l'activité de la communauté (c'est pour ça que j'ai par la suite rejoint une ligue française de simracing, car la communauté était tout simplement géniale, avec les pilotes confirmés qui aidaient les débutants). J'y ai passé 4 bonnes années avant de renoncer faute de temps, je suis passé d'un pilote propre mais lent à un pilote rapide et fiable tout en restant propre avec mes adversaires malgré un ensemble volant + pédales à bout de souffle et bas de gamme.

Pour moi la priorité devrait être de remettre sur pied un forum et de revoir ce qui faisait pour moi le charme de VG (classement sans options, discussions tactiques... etc), puis d'avoir une boite à idées, des sondages sur les améliorations du jeu... etc.

A l'heure actuelle, je me sens déboussolé, je ne sais pas ou on va avec VG, j'ai l'impression que je vais devoir m'attendre à tout et n'importe quoi comme évolution, comme si cela n'avait pas trop de sens, et pourtant je continue malgré un niveau que je qualifierai de faible et que le vocabulaire nautique est encore pour moi du chinois.

Il faut à mon sens vous efforcez de rendre les changements PREVISIBLES pour ne pas déboussoler les joueurs, et cela limitera aussi la grogne tout naturellement si je puis dire, on dirait que tout ceci est unilatéral et que les joueurs n'ont (ou n'avaient?) plus grand chose à dire. Peut-être essayer de soumettre vos idées et celle de l'équipe VG pour voir en voyant les réponses des joueurs si cela va dans la bonne direction, ce qui me semble être du bon sens.

Pour finir, inutile de faire la guerre, pour moi j'ai été sur plusieurs jeux de vélo, et on se faisait jamais la guerre, je comprends pas tout ça, ya rien de mieux que la coopération (je suis aujourd'hui par exemple membre d'un site d'information de cyclisme ou j'échange avec des finlandais, norvégiens, danois, allemands, anglais... et on coopère pour que chacun donne des infos les plus fiables possibles, moi en tant que français, il y a plein d'infos que le finlandais ou le norvégien ne risque pas de trouver, et inversement).

Sur ce, merci Cvetan pour l'outil zezo que j'ai découvert pendant VG 2016 (après 1 semaine de course environ), et m'avait permis de faire un très bon classement sans options à la Sobedo qui suivait.

Je souhaite à Philippe de réussir à traverser ce moment un peu compliqué et de garder ce qui à fait le succès de VG durant toutes ces années.
Post by iconPost by bonknhoot | 2017-10-31 | 23:51:00
PS I sailed as Yohann Voileur mostly on VR. I remember Barqueme.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2017-11-01 | 10:02:33
@zezo

I think it's a good idea. This post makes me shivers
Post by iconPost by Breaksea | 2017-11-01 | 11:00:38
I am an old (virtual) skipper and have participated in all the virtual race games associated with the VolvoOcean race. I had a glimpse of the Volvo XC90 first price before some faster boats/skippers blocked my view). I looked forward to play again for this year..until I saw the changes during the prologue. I did take the effort to give positive feedback to VR on how they could improve it to make it more realistic. Such has having two races/classes, the standard one with cards, and a virtual(pro) sailer one with IDENTICAL options for all skippers as is the nature of the real boats.."One Design". No response, but I read now that it is the same everyone else has received on their feedback.

I participated in Leg 1 as I did want to race my old friends and the 5 euro was sort of acceptable (55 euros for 11 Legs) because part of it will be donated to a good cause. But it is no longer a race game, but a card game and 15 euro's for a Leg is ridiculous. Yes, money buys you a better and faster boat in the real world, but that should not be the case here. To make it a challenging race you need to have many participates that compete on equal grounds.

I call it "Game Over". I will run my boat a ground in the bay of Cascais to the west of Lisbon and abandon it. I welcome all others that are done with the game to join me there.

I am sure we can find a casino there with better odds on a card game.


Bon Voyage.

Breaksea (NL)
Post by iconPost by mjstevens | 2017-11-01 | 12:52:29
Agreeing with many of the comments and suggestions above, unsettled by some arrogant comments, seeing the prices (and increases) that have been now published for leg2 and considering that this should be a fun passtime; I shall scuttle my V60 (moosejaw).

A shame as I was looking forward to a 3rd period of little sleep.. my time zone does not help.

Tks Zezo for your valuable tools.
Post by iconPost by andrel | 2017-11-01 | 13:33:57
I read almost all VR3 threads and it looks like I've come to the conclusion. The present Virtual Regatta game version is incompatible with the concept of sports and the spirit of competition. But I like Volvo Ocean Race and to be in touch with every mile of galls and guys on board of Vestas, Mapfre and other five „state of art“ boats I want to sail with them all the route. The question to our great community. What is the real alternative to VR at the moment to be in one start line on 5th of November?
andrel
LV
Post by iconPost by Marcilly | 2017-11-01 | 15:55:29
join many virtual sailors on LiveSkipper..
Post by iconPost by achphil | 2017-11-01 | 16:21:00
Bonjour,
Je fais parti des concurrents du ventre mou. Ceux qui jouaient AO pour le VG seulement et SO pour le reste.. En voyant que les 100 premiers prenaient des routes identiques, j’ai recherché un routeur et tombé sur zézo. C’est alors que pour me mesurer aux meilleurs, j’ai acheté les options. J’ai donc fait progresser le Chiffre d’affaire de VR, grâce à Zézo. Mon classement a alors évolué. Merci donc à zézo pour ce que vous faites, et le chiffre d’affaire de VR vous remercie également aux dépens de mon compte bancaire  …
Lors des premières courses, avec la nouvelle application, j’ai trouvé que régler 5 euros pour avoir toutes les options voiles était correct, ce qui me permettait de me mesurer aux 500 premiers. Mais maintenant, 10-15-20 € et bientôt certainement plus pour avoir seulement le pack navigation, c’est trop. En prenant une moyenne de 20 euros par course et 100 courses par an, le coût serait de 2 000 euros … Pour ce prix, il est préférable de louer un voilier à plusieurs pour 2-3 semaines…. Et naviguer en réel…
Je viens moi aussi de tester la concurrence (live skipper), et même si VR est beaucoup plus agréable, on peut s’amuser sur la concurrence. Attention, aujourd’hui, les clients sont très mobiles, non fidèles et les réseaux sociaux très puissants pour dérouter la clientèle : la preuve (le forum zezo m’a fait découvrir live skipper).
En ce qui concerne, les débats sur le forum, le respect mutuel doit être une règle. Il convient donc de ne pas répondre aux propos irrespectueux.
Ce n’est bien sur que mon avis.
Philippe, attention votre chiffre d’affaire risque de baisser et la concurrence va progresser si vous ne tenez pas compte des remarques de vos clients
Vu toutes les remarques ,mais qui repose que sur quelques joueurs , je propose à Philippe une solution :
Vous trouvez un stagiaire pendant 6 mois (coût 500 euros par mois) , issue d’un grande école de commerce, et vous lui faites faire une étude d’amélioration du jeu et bien évidemment de votre chiffre d’affaire. Un voileux pourrait être intéressé… Vous avez déjà une bonne base de donné avec les 200 à 250 000 vrais participants du dernier VG. D’autres développements commerciaux sont également possibles…Forfait pour des sociétes , des clubs nautiques etc…
Vous avez su faire évoluer la qualité de votre jeu (mais pas votre CA entre 2013 et 2015 : chute de 30 %...), alors que vous avez le meilleur jeu au monde, donc tout pour réussir demain, alors ne laissez pas la concurrence vous rattrapez et écoutez vos clients.
J’adore votre jeu, il fonctionne très bien également sous androïd, ce qui est génial. Bravo pour ce que vous avez fait, mais la route du succès ne fait que commencer comme vos résultats financiers…
Bon vent à vous.
Post by iconPost by MichelleWhy | 2017-11-01 | 17:09:13
I only play VR during winter time to kill time when I'm off real life sailing, I come back frequently. This kind of tactical game always attracted me. But I'm not a friend with all these changes in VR over the past years to the disadvantage of the majority of sailors. Having done 3 VOR's so far, I decided to drop it for this years. Not because I can't afford it, but I only see little to no gain spending hundreds of euros per year for more or less no gain in fun factor.

I like the idea of having a zezo sailing game and definitely will support this. But bear in mind that once a game has been set up, it wont be for free as number of users will increase beyond what zezo is used to be now. To become successful and draw the attention, it has to go the commercial way.

Time to say thanks to Cvetan for his awesome work and make a small donation to keep this alive!

MichelleWhy
Post by iconPost by pmangino | 2017-11-01 | 20:48:56
The Golden Days of VR are gone...
I will not throw away my money. The price for the Full Options Package is exaggeratedly high and it is not a matter of having the money or not, its a matter of basic principles.
I will stick with the basic resources to sail my boat at the best of my abilities.
Thank you Cvetan for all your help during so many years of happy sailing.
Post by iconPost by mangina | 2017-11-02 | 01:11:19
Hi all,

I have read through almost all of the comments on this thread, and also the responses from Philippe and his thoughts. While I disagree with some people on some of the arguments the one thing I think everyone on this forum has in common is the desire to be part of the best offshore sailing game in the world.

I agree that sometimes the level of communication from VR can be left wanting, we have an expression in Australia which is "you don't get anywhere by flogging a dead horse". This basically means that if you continue to repeat bad habits things will not progress for the better.

I first started on VR two VOR editions ago as an SO user, and then did not participate again until the last edition of the VOR, which was my first experience as a full options sailor. I always found it hard to compete on an even playing field as living in Australia there was one of the two forecasts per day occuring at around 3:00 am (depending on day light savings in both France and Australia).

When the version 2 evolution came around and there was 4 forecasts per day this leveled the playing field worldwide which was fantastic.

I completely understand the desire of VR to make the game more attractive to the SO users of the site and also to turn a profit on the game.

I may be frowned upon and come under attack for what I am writing here, but I am a big boy and I can handle criticism.

From where I am sitting yes there have been changes made to the game that has introduced an issue where the winner of a race may not be the best skipper tactically, but the person willing to have the least sleep or spend the most money, which is something I disagree with.

The 4 knot wind limit, (whilst I disagree with it in concept and think it should be reduced at the very least to say 2 or 3 knots), during my first experience with the game I was stuck in a windless hole for 48 hours, and that experience almost stopped me continuing to play the game.

I am lucky in the work I do where I am working 2 weeks on (12 hours per day for 14 days), and two weeks off, and whilst I am at work the environment I work in means it is a necessity to take regular breaks to cool down and rehydrate meaning I can take a look at VR almost all day everyday.

I know we all have issues, but what I am suggesting is that we work out which issues are:
- a must fix issue
- a nice to fix issue
- something we can live with

As a community of VR sailors if we then filter these responses and condense them into something that can be easily presented to VR, we can then provide a constructive dialogue with those at VR who make the decisions on the game, rather than the negativity and anger I am seeing in almost all of these posts.

Yes we are frustrated, but if we turn the frustration into something constructive I think we can all benefit by being a part of the best game in the world for sailors.

Cheers
Matt (mangina - PYR)
Post by iconPost by pmangino | 2017-11-02 | 01:45:50
Do you have any ideas..?
Post by iconPost by mangina | 2017-11-02 | 03:16:40
My ideas on what is required to make the game great again are:

1. Must fix issues
- weather forecasts being free for all (at least short term forecasts). This is the most basic part of the game and all players rely on this to decide where to go, in either the right or wrong direction :)

- the usability of the game (schedule vs sleep) needs fixing. 1 card 1 schedule if the card system is to continue, which I think it will. Having the 2nd cost 2 cards, 3rd cost 3 makes players need to spend more time on the game and prevents people from sleeping and working which will stop people playing, reduce the competitiveness of the game, reducing interest, player numbers and ultimately revenue for VR

- being able to select the cards you would like when buying navigation packs. During the Vendee Globe I didn't use 1 waypoint in the entire 72 days I was "at sea" and solely used schedules (programation cards). I had to buy around 10 - 15 navigation packs to receive enough schedule cards to sleep for 4 hours leaving the Med and Gibraltar in the recent VOR leg 1, and if it wasn't for the timing of the leg in relation to work my result would have been far worse. Whether this means being able to buy an unlimited schedule option when setting up your boat, or simply buying a pack of 10 schedule points.

- little bugs like foils not working on port tack. This is a given and your speed should be your speed

2. Nice to have issues fixed

- DTG calculation error when approaching the finish. Everyone probably noticed the DTG error when approaching the finish of the VOR leg 1. This increased the stress level for all, but in reality everyone finished where they finished and having the 1 minute iteration of the game is far better than having an exact DTG calculation available at all times especially when passing DTG calculation markers. Possibly not having any of these markers within 50 miles of the finish would work provided we are not required to round some land to finish.

- category rankings for each "division" of sailor. Self explanitory

- availability of polars in the game. It is nice to be able to see the polars of your boat in the game, but I am sure everyone is aware of Cvetan having the polars available on zezo.org so is it really necessary?

3. Things I can live with:

- minimum wind speed. It is the same for every user although I think 4 knots is a little too much wind to be set as a minimum and it will make the VOR legs from Australia to Hong Kong, and then Hong Kong to New Zealand quite farcical sailing in the South Pacific.

If we as users can come to a consensus about what is required to move forward and make the game great again, and then present this to VR which I am more than happy to do, I can send Cvetan my email address and once the ideas are agreed upon by all this can be presented to VR as our collective voice.

Panic breeds panic, and anger breeds anger so if we can remain calm and work through this rough weather, I am sure there will be smooth sailing ahead.

Cheers
Matt
Post by iconPost by mangina | 2017-11-02 | 05:26:18
- Improved resolution of land is also a nice to have. The advantage some could gain by attempting to sail through small island gaps could be changed by adding one or more turning marks to take this advantage away from the few willing to take the risk
Post by iconPost by pmangino | 2017-11-02 | 01:46:33
Post by iconPost by Journeyman27 | 2017-11-02 | 10:23:03
Isn't interesting there have been no further comments by Phillippe. Has he now put his hands over his ears?
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-02 | 12:29:18
It's not like Philippe is hitting reload on this page every 5 minutes.

Anyway, there is no much more left to be said, so please folks let's stop wasting our time.
Post by iconPost by super | 2017-11-06 | 17:02:40
Hi Journeyman27,

Not at all, I have read everything, absolutely everything. We care of our players, more that everything. I and the team are also in direct contact with many players.

I have communicated but what I see it that it is an endless discussion, I cannot repeat our point of view each time.

May I repeat just one thing? We are tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands playing, many different behaviours, different ways of playing, motivations. We have at VR above all to take care of that. We do our best to satisfy the more of our players.

I will communicate in the futur in our forum the "Club House", once we will show it up it again, what we had to do for log/pass technical reasons (split of DB VRO/VRI).

Enjoy sailing,

Philippe
Post by iconPost by JACOMINO | 2017-11-02 | 10:40:58
Je me pose la question sur le seuil de joueurs ou VR comprendra qu'il fait fausse route. Mais comme au royaume des aveugles le borgne est Roi......Alors cela risque de rester avec ce jeu de cartes et sans accès aux groupes.
Post by iconPost by ultrine | 2017-11-02 | 12:32:15
Hi Matt

Polars are available on zezo.org but weather forecast is available on zezo too.
Today on clipper 3/13 during hours all players were taged with the same 4.0 speed. In a game were tactical choice matter, imo it's a nonsense.
Point is game consistency : In a virtual regatta game maybe we can expect some sailing stuff and feeling fighting againt natural elements not a 4.0 linear algorithm.

Anyway, everyone as his own opinion about impact of the new version, but i think a lot of people here agreed with your list.
IAll communication channels with VR are closed, so maybe it's not time for discussion. Maybe just send a community request with an ordered top 3 point to submit to VR modification. Mine should be :
1-Schedule
2-Wind
3-Ranking

Don't know if someone as the skill and web tools to build this kind of community survey in a limited time...

Ultrine
Post by iconPost by limelight | 2017-11-05 | 03:22:42
The worse thing that could happen to VR would be for zezo to stop providing routing for their races and instead support another platform. I believe there would be a mass desertion from VR to whatever platform Cvetan would choose to support.

Perhaps then, Mr Guigné would come to understand that far from being a competitor, zezo in fact is providing a vital support to VR.

The argument that zezo is stealing VR's precious IP is completely ridiculous.

John

P.S. Cvetan, if you decide to do that, please support LiveSkipper, I like their game! :)
Post by iconPost by JACOMINO | 2017-11-06 | 14:26:53
Tout a fait d'accord avec toi limelight. J'aimerai bien que CVETAN se dirige vers Live Skipper.
Paul
Post by iconPost by titoff50 | 2017-11-05 | 11:05:13
limelight : +1
Post by iconPost by Marcilly | 2017-11-05 | 11:22:10
John Limelight +1 and i think it will be easier for Cvetan, the weather from NOAA data is not hacked... all is clear and clean...
Post by iconPost by Whitbyweather | 2017-11-05 | 13:22:26
I agree completely with John, Limelight. VR is nothing without Zezo, just another expensive arcade game. I have moved to LiveSkipper, which is just like VR was in the good old days, only with a better interface. I have received a royal welcome, everyone is very helpful and the game offers lots of different races. Finally, it is free!
If Cvetan could bring his superb program to LiveSkipper all our problems would be solved!
Chris
Whitbyweather
Post by iconPost by Devaneio | 2017-11-05 | 14:51:18
The VR clock is not being updated automatically. I'm using Chrome and this is also happening in Firefox.
Post by iconPost by hophop | 2017-11-05 | 23:17:59
Quand une passion devient une contrainte il vaut mieux passer à autre chose. VR a été le meilleur jeu de voile virtuelle mais c'était avant cette version complètement ratées.
Post by iconPost by Patrice | 2017-11-06 | 08:35:08
oui hophop....version ratée...par cupidité...ils ont fait n'importe quoi pour gagner de l'argent....je suis sur un autre jeu de voile, plus sympa, moins cher Liveskipper...a+
Post by iconPost by denosya | 2017-11-06 | 16:51:04
Hi. I am Denosya from LiveSkipper (former project leader).
If anyone serious is interested, we are open to share our code and our APIs.
Let us know.
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-11-08 | 21:15:55
Hi All,
Hi Cvetan,
Hi Phillipe,

First of all as I believe is my first post on your forum no matter i have been following and using it for so many years, Thank you, Cvetan for your amazing work, thank you for your ever ready answer to any question or suggestion...and this is one of the reason i never needed to ask...when i was going to ask...someone had already done it and you have already answered and if that was the case corrected what has to be fixed. So well done my friend it has been a pleasure for all this years to have been seen you moderating a forum wihtout censoring and giving voice to suggestions.

Phillipe, now for me VR has a name, so hi, and I am glad I can adress you directly.A different thing is to know if you ever going to read what I have to tell you or even answer me. More than that I am really impressed to know that you are the one behind VirtuarSkipper. Game that game me so much hours of amusement and pure joy, and it's a pitty, that suddenlly you guys stopped updating. Do you know there are still thousands of people playing it i the old platform? Don't they have the right to have some follow up? Well...I think maybe i see a pattern here...but let's not create some early assumptions.

But let's go to the point.

I have been playing VR since almost day one. I have seen perheaps even more than some of the now gold class Champions..i remember even things like elPape jumping over land pixels and still continuing his course...but that is past...it was a troubled past ..but it's past.

I have seen this game evolving, becoming better, getting to hundreds of thousands of players at the same time playinf like in last Vendee or even las VOR. there were problems there..of course..we always had problems...like servers freezing on start..some strange things happening during some legs. etc....but the game was a success and faily easy to play during 6 months ore more for a total VOR.

Nowadays, you turned it impossible to do it.

In one of your above posts you say "In other words, most can drive a car, few a F1. If our game was "only" for F1 drivers, would you have the same excitement if you were trying to win a race with 300 competitors ?"...well Phillipe what you are doing is exactly the opposite that you are saying there...with this crazy card system, which has nothing to do with sailing, you are assuming that we are all F1 players and that we all can be up all night for 15 days in a row, with few exception...No my friend, if I could do that I would be sailing for real for 6 months not behind a PC.

Plus it's not a fair system, because i'ts based on if you are fortunate or not to have the right cards....really???? And when we fully equip a boat we fully equip a boat...do we have to buy cards, for minor but important things that we always were used to have at our disposal? And if at least the cards were to polish the hull? or to save some time in a tack or jibe..but to have auto sails and to program sailing?

Do you really want us all to leave you? Because some of us already started. I myself told my friends I would not go into leg 2..but I'm in..surprise surprise...more expensive...4knts treshold...foils not working...with all this time till now doing more than 20knts downwind.

Phillipe, the reallity is clear...there is a down peak of quality and playability in VR. the game WAS the best...it is an average game now and it's expensive for a blind result (you don't know what you are buying)..and the voices you are hearing are trying to say...we want the quality back.

More, the voices you are hearing are saying: we want information..We are used to have our rankings on site . We are used to have our forums. We are used to know the criteria to points atribution. We are used to know the rules. We want to know in advance explicitly any change. We want to know if there are prizes or not (the less important for me). We want to have Polars. We want to have foils that work. we Don't want to have 4knts treshold. We want a FAIR game.

Those are questions and situations to be answered and implemented asap.

And Phillipe...regarding you and Cvetlan...as a businessman for so many years and a lawyer too, having into consideration what I have read so far, what I have witnessed all this years and my own experience, knowing the game and Zezo and also other similar tools...I would give you a million dollars advice...seat at a table with Cvetlan, find a way to merge, hear to him..If I were you I quickly would find him a valuable spot managing relations with clients (he is far better doing that than anyone in your costumer relations area) and developing navigation area....and for that..I mean for Zezo as a feature included in VR, I wouldn't mind to pay...now for cards, my friend, really?????

This is the most clever way for the future, in my point of view.

I wish both of you really find a common path.

If not, I would reccomend Cvetlan to fly solo. I would join the crowdfund. I am sure with te inputs of everyone he listens and the engineers I already saw saying they are ready to go, this will end in a better game than VR.

Please Philipe and Cvetlan, avoid this, be smart, listen to us and give us the best of you together. We will pay for it. And everyone will be happy.

Cheers

Nuno
Post by iconPost by andrel | 2017-11-08 | 23:22:01
I agree with all that is said
andrel
Post by iconPost by pmangino | 2017-11-14 | 01:11:37
Your speech is clear and clever. Your words full of wisdom.
I agree 100% with what you just said...
Best regards,
Pat
Post by iconPost by Patrice | 2017-11-08 | 22:03:35
Bonsoir...ok tout est dit...Philippe super jeu que tu as fait VR....mais pour résumer: Pas de jeu de cartes..on aime la mer, les bateaux, la compétition...mais pitié!!! faut arrêter le jeu de cartes...le poker n'a rien à voir avec la mer...j'ai vécu toute ma vie sur l'eau, j'ai parcouru toutes les mers du globe...je n'ai jamais décidé de ma direction avec des cartes (à jouer)!!! l'ancien VR était super...tu l'as fait évoluer pour faire de l'argent!!! dommage, c'est ton choix
Post by iconPost by tinifon | 2017-11-08 | 23:13:40
Bonjour Mr Guigné,
Vous avez su inventer un super jeu il y a plus de 10 ans, je peux aussi comprendre qu’une société doit évoluer pour ne pas mourir mais là je trouve que votre dernière mutation est un flop total.

Cela fait 10 mois que j'ai fermé Virtual regatta et hier je l'ai rouvert pour voir le jaque Vabre, et je me suis cru sur winamax .

Que de loterie dans cette nouvelle version, alert radio, winchs pro, voiles petit temps etc. etc. je me suis demandé si bientôt nous n’aurions pas le kit de 1er secours ou des rations lyophilisé à prendre.

De plus impossible de prendre les voiles pro après le départ, Vr qui m’empêche de dépenser mon argent c’est assez hilarant.

Pour revenir à zézo je suis intimement convaincu que c’est grâce à Cvetan et a son outil que vous avez autant de fidèles qui dépensent leur argent depuis toutes ces années, l'un sans l’autre n’est pour moi pas concevable .

La version du Vendée Globe était une bonne mutation si vous ne voulez pas mettre la clef sous la porte à mon avis un back up serait des plus judicieux.

De plus beaucoup des cadors qui jouaient à votre jeu ont disparu, frogeater, aladabra, lemalosaint, inderwestain,marcha Bob les rkn etc…je suis surement nostalgique de cette époque mais c’était quand même la meilleure, la saveur était complètement différente, nous nous tirions la bourre et c’était bon enfant, c’est devenu insipide, à base de loterie et à coup de carte magique.

À très bientôt monsieur guigné car je vais quand même essayer de faire une course sur votre plateforme car comme je l’apprends à mes enfants il faut goûter avant de dire que l’on n’aime pas mais je suis quand même sceptique.

Cordialement Jeff
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-11 | 11:52:52
Damn. Have to fix the escaping of special characters in the forum :-(
Post by iconPost by tinifon | 2017-11-12 | 11:20:16
:) no problem
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-11-12 | 13:24:45
"De plus impossible de prendre les voiles pro après le départ, Vr qui m’empêche de dépenser mon argent c’est assez hilarant"

In fact. Good point. In this case VR is kicking their own butt. It's not hilarious. It's a total management error. Good recipe to lose money.
Post by iconPost by fab | 2017-11-10 | 18:31:23
It's time to build your own game cvetan !!!
Just do it !
I will be the first to register.

AKA Xolub RKN
Post by iconPost by Inicio | 2017-11-12 | 20:36:49
There is a lot of work and issues to resolve behind the VR agreement with World Sailing.
It seems to me that the solution to some of our worries and bugs will be delayed perhaps due to that situation ...


http://sailing.org/news/85502.php#.Wgg__kxDneS
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2017-11-12 | 21:36:03
You may be right Inicio.

Of course...dollars (euros or whatever the currency) first...they always speak louder.

And in the case of the rise of In-shore part of the company, Off-shore/routing area and programming issues will increase. It's more than obvious that the core of the effort of VR will go to In-shore. VirtualSkipper was and still is a success as a sailing simulator. And they did it.

But someone forgets that in digital area, things are always in mutation. The best platform today, tomorrow can be totally obsolete. And regarding the routeing area I think we all agree that things are getting into stormy waters. And if things continuing failing it's totally abusive to claim the title of golden digital platform, simply because it's not true.

Exhibiting the medals of the past, like the 450.000 players in last Vendee Globe is nice, but where are they now? Fake news or fake numbers some will say. Yes and no. Well I know for a fact that loads of people registered a fleet of boats on their own just to try different routes. But whatever the numbers were, they were higher than today. At the same time, showing those medals, taking into accountthat the platform was different, makes me feel like i am seeing a veteran of WW1 full of medals. I have the utmost respect for him, but seriouslly I can't send him to war again with his age.

The thing is, with the actual model of platform the numbers won't be hit again.

So in my humble opinion, I guess that if VR doesn't update their quality on routeing area making it even with In-shore, it means nothing in a short term to claim that VR is the best digital platform. It maybe for in-shore racing simulation, but routing i guess it could well be a totally diferen story if VR doesn't care a little bit more.

And if that happens...once again ...dollars will speak louder, and exclusives are not for life.. So one way or another, with the speed things change nowadays, there will always be a solution. And sponsors. those..they go with the best.

Nuno
Post by iconPost by JohnT | 2017-11-13 | 01:44:44
Perhaps this gives us another route to make our voices heard. I would like to think that the head of World Sailing might be interested in comments from people who actively participate in their existing game as virtual sailors rather than just e-gamers.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2017-11-13 | 08:04:20
ISAF and the Olympics as a whole have been known to care more about money, sponsors and event televisibility that the spirit of the sport in the past decades.
Post by iconPost by mag | 2017-11-23 | 23:54:48
Very interesting to read all comments and discussions, passion is not helpful to moderate opinions, but no sailing simulator without passion !

Virtual Regatta is a great game and must change with success to meet more people and lower level of sailing knowledge, to become less technical and more "funny" there is no shame about it.
Business is not a shame too and programmer paid for there activity is more than reasonable. And we have to admit that it is possible to play at Virtual Regatta at 0 cost, so business model of Virtual Regatta is not a problem to my opinion.

No surprise too that users with sailing knowledges are frustated with this development.
When a new race boat is built, the first thing is to measure / control polars ! So those users wants the same ! They also want to have all data to be able to choose options, strategy.
They don't really need wind animation that will use a big part of processor activity.

Best will be to have both worlds in the same game (Virtual Regatta + zezo sailing simulator) : simple and friendly interface for ordinary users and less friendly but with more data / options for advanced users ! More easy to say ...

If not having two different sailing simulators with different target clients is not a problem !

Concerning the idea of a zezo game :
- It should be an advanced user game.
- The current map view is just perfect, just need to see my boat on it !
- We don't need a precise cost management to simply the development at the beginning
- We don't need many options / many different boats at the beginning
- We just need clear data about boats performances (polars, impact of options)
- Because development has a cost, races could have a reasonable registration price (same for every user) like real races ?

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Vendée Globe 2024
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route zezo.org / extraction des coordonnées GPX pour import Windy
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routage
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route-zezo extension not available anymore in the chrome store
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Old extension does not work anymore
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no more access Dashboard VR
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Stamina Boosting Items
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When to do the routing ?
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How do you keep up?
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Missing "+" but updates
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Zezo grib repository
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zezo pour Ipad
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Weather update
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Routage IA
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VR Dashboard EOL
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Ocean fifty #5
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Free Races option gone??
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java script console did not load properly
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Finistère Atlantique
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Maupiti - Papeete
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Normandy Channel Race
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Penalties
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Figaro 3 et mise en place des courants marins...
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honolulu yokohama
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Routing : Honolulu / Yokohama
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Singapour Express
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Hong Kong to London
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Route for Baltic
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Can't access VR
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ATLANTIC RECORD
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Homepage dropdownlist
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Tour Voile #3 ?
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Indian Ocean Cup
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La trinite routing through exclusion zone
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Quebec St-malo
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Click and Boat #4 : timeshift not working
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NEW YORK/SAN FRANCISCO
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Ocean Fifty series - Act 2
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New-York / San Francisco
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Los Angeles - Honolulu predicted times ?
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Transat NY VENDEE
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"Start times" drop-down menu in fleet races?
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RECORD : LONDON- HONG KONG
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Pantaenius Rund Skagen
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Transat CIC : routing through exclusion zone
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IMOCA Transat CIC (Exclusion Zones question)
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Transat CIC Races
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Is Cvetan ok?
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Los Angeles - Honolulu
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Password
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REVERSE ODYSSEY
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ARKEA Ultim Challenge
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Saint Patrick's Race
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Round Australia Record
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Columbus2
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Jules Verne Trophy
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Breizh Tour
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ARKEA Ultim : no more zezo routing available
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Round Australia Record en Zezo
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JVT : no route computed beyond 60° S ?
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My yacht sales slower than the oponents
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Races on homepage
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Any news about GFS 0.25ª ?
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VR & qtVlm
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daylight saving time
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How to use two operating systems in one laptop?
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Synchronisation of weather with VR
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Dashboard local time KO on Chiloe
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GFS Resolution
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WES6
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WES #8
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Departure time for "Retour a la base"
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TWA signed
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Am 24. November 2023 startet zum ersten Mal die Deutsche Meisterschaft im Offshore eSailing
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WES #5
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Please Respond
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Dashboard KO
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Polars Ultim
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TJV Races : november 6 start
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Race list update ?
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Trophy Jules Verne : Gribs
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Cafe 93 Center of display?
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TJV Ultim : Timeshift KO
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O50 and C40 first legs
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Mini transat start on saturday
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Mini transat start on saturday
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Mini Transat Leg 2
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WES #2
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WES
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Arrivée Vendée globe
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How are VR files .wnd structured ?
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Sydney-Auckland
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Mini-Transat start postponed - timeshift is wrong
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DEFI AZIMUT
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Pro Sailing GFS 0.25
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Figaro leg 2
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RECORD La Mauricienne
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Winds speed : map display bug ?
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Cutoff date for the NY - SF record attempt?
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Not red nor green projection lines.
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Dashboard: maps out of service
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The Options information on the Dash
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New polars
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User Interface re-organization bug + add info
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Sailonline
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RECORD : New York / San Francisco
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The Ocean Race Leg 7
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CIC Normandy
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toxcct
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Several...
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Heading true wind curve indicators
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California race leg 3
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California race leg 2
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the PAPREC 600
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Pro Sailing Tour 3/3
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Ocean Race Leg 4 - 5
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Wind differences between zezo and VR
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Pro Sailing Tour 2
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ArMen Race
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Defi Atlantique 2/2
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problem N S and W E buttons not working on android
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python3 code for nmea_proxy.py
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RECORD Los Angeles-Honolulu
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Chrome extension ZEZO
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Solo Maître CoQ. Winds GFS 0.25 ?
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Mod 70
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IMOCA #3 - Unsupported race, no router support yet.
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Some problems with Predicted times Sydney Tahiti for GFS 27.2 18Z to GFS 28.2 06Z ?
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Antarctic Ice Exclusion Zone - Leg 3
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SYDNEY/PAPEETE
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Chromebook
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RealSail - new platform
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Routage - Ice Exclusion Zone
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arrival time
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Changed start Globe 8. (Another time...)
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Jules Verne, is there no problem with the card until the finish?
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Routing RECORD Sydney - Papeete
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New races charts ?
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No route with GFS06Z
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polars for windpredict.com
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Imoca 1 or 2
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Anyone else experiencing terrible lag in the game?
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VIP-Membership
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Heading list
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two times the same race
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routing differences bitSailor / zezo / offline
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Ushaia-Recife
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Is this site active?
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Wind updates on VR Leg 0 ?
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The Ocean Race is back. So I am.
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Sydney to Hobart
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Private Race - qualification Du Virtuel au Reel
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Polars available
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Ocean Masters Series
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Current wind difference
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Back to St Malo
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globe40-5
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calculation of time dots
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THANK YOU !
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Weather Updates
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Zezo on webrowser Chrome on a pc versus a tablet
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Why does VR constantly nag us?
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predicted time
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Unable to log in
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Polars
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VOILES
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Polars ULTIM & IMOCA
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Route du Rhum
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TROPHÉE JULES VERNE : routing ZEZO
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Route du Rhum race start postponed
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iPad usage
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simulating alternative routes
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newzealande
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Halloween
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Troussel cup
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La Mauricienne
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Vendée Globe Cap-Town / Cap Horn
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concern about Grib file actualisation
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Defi Azimut
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New York - San Francisco
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Carte VR avec Pixels (french version)
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VR Map with Pixels
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Polar Imports?
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Filters on Dashboard
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weather updates on FIGARO
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Major VR update
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Grib HAVANA
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Sevenstar race
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Globe 2 Destination on Zezo
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Server Migration VR
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ALERT - Zezo stopped on GFS:t06z but VR loads the 12Z before Migration
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maps .cht for VRTool
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zezo trigger problem
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how to manage the energy on VR?
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mission exmuth
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Catalina sur Mac
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Stamina
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Record : New York / San Francisco
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ZEZO no longer triggers on all my races
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Comparison between Avalon and Zezo
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vendée article
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dashboard with stamina?
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Factor
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Forum en français
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Pantaenius Rund Skagen
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sydney Tahiti
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Come back from Crete by the North shore
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Toxcct - NCR: wrong polars?
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Is there a software to analyse the polars of a boat?
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Bermudes 1000
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Record : HONOLULU → YOKOHAMA
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Mayflower
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LA HONOLULU
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nooa
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VR weather format
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1000 Mile Race
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Zezo support on Ocean 2022 #1
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Buoys turn
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VR Dashboard
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List of past races
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St. Patrick's race category
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Bombay Start Time
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Apply Zezo routing into VR
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How to search subjects in the forum
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Ultim Crew
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Zezo et options problèmes de routage
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Origin of the name ZEZO
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Running aground
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pb zezo block to pass 60W in tara race
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Dubai to Muscat
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Decoding all.ggrib
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Chrome extension no longer works after update to Chrome 97.0.4692.99
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Zezo wind hour issues on race USE IT AGAIN
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Routing during transition fm one grib to another
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Search in forum topics & use of iPad
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Transquadra Race #2 : Code 6
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PB to Connect VRDASHBOARD to VR
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Hours in zezo
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ZEZO use in VIRTUAL REGATTA
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Search topic on the zezo forum ?
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Comment passer la date de routage dans l'url de zezo?
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King George to San Gregorio
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Grib update ?
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allgrib
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Jules Verne Trophy next leg issue
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Globe 40
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VSR 2021
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Sydney to Hobart
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NMEA Output - UDP
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Use it Again - Polars
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start time preset timed races
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Maneuvering Bug?
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Mnea proxy link to Squid X in MAC
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Show different routes
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Manoeuvering penalties update
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Nooa
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Route du Rhum
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What means "FACTOR"
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Add TWD in Fleet Sheet of the Dashboard?
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Classement en ULTIM + FOILS uniquement
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Hull Polish
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TJV Martinique island arrival routes
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How to get boat names from VRDashboard NMEA data?
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VR and Map for aground
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See when friends are registered for a race
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VR charges too much credits?
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Trophée Jules Verne
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lost the red informations on the routeur
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Dashboard
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Transat Jacques Vabre Virtual Regatta
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JV2021 Predicted Time
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any zezo connection
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FUNBRIDGE. Code for all sails, no foils etc.
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TJV Imoca
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Echange code full pack Transat JV Imoca contre code full pack autre course
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JV ULTIM
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Time error in the zezo timetable - Vendee
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calculation of the credit received on a race
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Vendee Globe
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Router shows direct upwind sailing angle in Marseille-Carthage race
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Non Existent(secret Races)
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the standstill boat
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A standstill boat
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Feature request - port/stbd tickbox
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Marseille-Carthage record
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VR not reachable
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time shift
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Imoca (foils)
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VR sold to a bigger company, online bridge leader
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NOAA GFS Release Times
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Discovered on the dashboard?
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Destination for minitransat
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Steering The Course not supported :(
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Boat position extraction from VR
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businessmenulist
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VC in yellow
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Globe 40 Series
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classement general for globe40 ...and figaro?
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Globe 40 step3
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503 Service Not Available
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buoy on Globe40 #03
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round britain
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Figaro2_Start
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MANEUVERS (TRANSFER, GAY ...) & TIME OF SPEED REDUCTION ON VIRTUAL REGATTA
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Mise à jour??
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Proposals for New FAQ
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Solitaire du Figaro : bouées ignorées / buoys ignored
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The Charts calculations: Who is using them and how much?
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Polar boat "Offshore racer"
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Solitaire du Figaro : First buoy moved to Rochebonne
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Track lines in VR Dashboard
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Pénalité de manoeuvre
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New rules, new game?
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New email address and password for my old account?
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Globe40 bug?
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Fastnet 2021
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What happend to Toppen!
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Better mobile support and maybe better user experience?
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Request for explanation: Zezo updates (deadlines)
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Updating boat position on zezo
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Buoys in the record race
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Summer Cup
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new VR penalties
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Avoid change of sails (SPI) going from LG to HG (through SPI)
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VR Dashboard 3.16
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Estimated Record Time on a record race
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no updates since yesterday !!
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Predicted times color background
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polar NY - SF
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Can you go around ground based on the ghost boat ?
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[Globe 40 (477)] TWA curve differs from navigation dots by about 5°
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Global 40 - new Class 40 polars
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Globe 40 on credits
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olympic race - which route to choose?
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Atlantic record bugg zezo Goto Lizard
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Figaro 3 Polars Winches
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Bit Sailor Router in RealSail
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Modification de destination
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Silent debugging
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How to manage buoys during absence
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Vela- route choosen by your mom
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VR Team ranking race criteria
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Log-in VR game marathon..
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VR Dashboard
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Dashboard - Precdicted Time ATLANTIC RECORD
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the prawn star
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polars virtual regatta
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how to convert Grib files to Grib2?
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VSR, XP points
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Nord Stream *3*
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Game on 12Z, but Zezo still working with 06Z
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race wait points
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special boats?
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VR Dashboard in Firefox?
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ESCARGOT CLASS
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Los Angeles - Honolulu
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Rounding a Buoy
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VR Waypoint Heavy Bug Reporting
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Time of ending Jules Verne
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Shore detection by Zezo
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Nord Stream Race 2
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Trying to Break the VR Map Mistery !
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Navigating to "xxx.0" TWA
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Tara4 - no refresh
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Jules Verne: Inconsistency of headings and speeds, simulation !!
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VR, Zezo, Qtvlm card offsets
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Island's coordinates
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Tara Ocean 4
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Solo Maitre Coq
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Adjustable timeshift ?
3
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gate crossing question
7
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Expanded View on PC
3
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Panic at VR Nord
7
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Delays during the sail changes, or directions changes
3
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(Game wind = Zezo wind ) ⍯ (Grib winds = Windy.com)
7
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VR ending the ELO ranking.
34
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NMEA feed
128
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Dashboard Map Track Label not including the segment.tag
5
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VR ingame time
6
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VIRTUAL REGATTA and Phillip Ganier. Worst and worst every day...
7
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beta.realsail.net
2
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Escort Frigate
6
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Out of memory. If you are the developer of this content ....
17
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Question about GFS Grib
5
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RORC Caribbean 600
14
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sliding VSR
16
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Trying to use Zezo to select best combination of sails to select
7
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TARA OCEAN 3
9
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RORC Transatlantique Race
6
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Game appears stuck on 00Z weather from yesterday
4
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Sydney to Auckland
28
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Personal Message pages deleted
7
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New zezo fonction
2
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VR Ranking 2021
7
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Autosail malfunction
3
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Comments from a newbie to "long term" routing
1
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Massive thanks to Cvetan
7
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Fleet section mode record not working
2
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Possible routes on the Map tab
3
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Purple skippers on VR Dashboard
3
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UTC or CET time ?
2
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multiple routes?
2
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Real Sail
4
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Map a little gloomy
8
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Trophée Jules Verne - Route à l'envers ?
2
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Looks like weather updates offline for next 18h
26
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Bring the good old days back
7
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All.grib 0.0k ?
9
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different speed
3
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Strange 0.5 mille VR Scale
3
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Just an idea for a new feature...
7
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Connexion impossible
1
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Donations
7
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New leader - seems to be using Zezo
38
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Bravo Zezo
4
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zezo : Huge job - Huge thx
2
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Difference between boat speed display on VR, dashboard and polar curves
7
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Vendée Globe: Track lines falling too short of ischrones
8
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Tara Ocean
29
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VR winds currently not up to date ?
1
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"Sails Change" within the Programming
3
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RORC Transat finish moved to Antigua
3
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Weather update not appearing...
19
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Dashboard not updating.
6
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Boats Skins Vendée Globe
3
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Safari on iOS: Bearing lines gone
3
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Wrong coordinates in zezo
2
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Winds in the chart do not show changes between 78 hours and 114 hours forecast
2
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Decoding of All grib
6
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I CANNOT ENTER FOR 3 HOURS IN THE GAME
23
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Why the vc data is yellow underlined ?
3
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Jules Verne 2020 - "Start NOW" discrepancy VS real time
7
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Would like to know the reasenable time to update your pisition on zezo
16
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Arrival Vendée Globe in Normandy !!?
4
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MIssing the Obvious: How to get Zezo routes back into VR
2
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VG 2020-01-02 has Zezo a problem with geographic or ...
8
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How to retrieve a waypoint (TWA/HDG) that already passed...
16
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Track duration window
3
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Ways to bypass the client to give orders?
6
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Problem to Load zero route in windy.com
40
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French tutorial for zezo
4
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boat positioning
2
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Export routes in GPX format ?
4
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Sail selection issue ?
11
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Your friends boats in Google Earth
2
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Delay in Wind update ?N
1
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VR Dashboard
54
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Colone Tile red
3
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Destination setting - Fixer la destination
2
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Anyone else experiencing erratic course changing behavior?
9
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Looks like game winds not updating.
6
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difference between wind on he map and wind on the route
8
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Cape Horn route is not possible it is crossing land
6
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Lost the lines..
2
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all.grb question
3
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2 routings ?
1
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What point or line is being used to determine the rankings?
61
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180 degree bug and downwind track
11
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démarrer avec zezo au milieu de la course
2
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Local times in the charts
1
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red and green lines ahead of isochrones
13
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20 Minute tack
6
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nemo point challenge problem
8
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Nemo Point Challenge
51
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Point Nemoers
1
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Route doesn't give prediction over 24h anymore
7
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Iterations on server & Zezo
5
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Sidney-Hobart 2020
3
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To day zezo don’t give me any route
6
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Fatal Grib error tonight ?
2
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predicted times JV
3
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Loick Peyron uses zezo, the best virtual sailing router ;)
9
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Orthodromy vs loxodromy around the poles
6
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Strange 1st dot heading
3
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Campbell Island
4
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VR bugs and rants
11
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Cap constant, ou angle au vent ? Constant heading, or wind angle?
18
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Colors of wind in the chart
4
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