Challenge the Champions - Peyron
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-22 | 16:35:59

Looks like there's a new event starting in 5+ days.

But... it looks like you must buy the Full Pack to access the game. And the full pack costs EU 24.99. So without paying the EU 24.99, all you can see is that it's a 2,900 nm race from Yarmouth, MA, USA to Le Pouliguen, France.

I just posted an entry in the VR forum to ask if that's intentional or not.

Is anyone planning to do that race? That's pretty expensive for a race that will probably take 7-10 days. I've been buying full packs for VOR and Clipper, so I have a huge number of credits to spend now, and I was planning to spend the credits on races like this one. Very frustrating if it's true that you must buy the full pack to do this race, especially given how expensive it is, and that it's Category 2.


commenticon 142 Comments
Post by iconPost by Flying Phil | 2018-02-22 | 17:04:50
You mean Challenge the business ?
I'm not going to participate.
Loick Peyron (skipper name LOICK PEYRON) arrived few days ago on the VOR 6/11. You can take a look of it's route, ..the boat passed on land.





Post by iconPost by Stormbringer | 2018-02-23 | 00:46:28
And he cut the mark!
Post by iconPost by karriv | 2018-02-22 | 17:32:16
I think they tried that once a couple of years back (that is that you needed to buy the full pack to get into the race). I think there were a few hundred participants in that race.

I'm just doing the Volvo, so most probably not that one. If it costs 25 eur, definitely not.
Post by iconPost by etrille17 | 2018-02-22 | 17:35:05
Je suis un SO.VR se moque de nous....
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-22 | 18:03:09
It might be a bug. The old UI/config offers 2000 free credits bonus and then exits. After tab reload it only allows a Full pack purchase.


Edit: There is a new app version available in the store.
Post by iconPost by TomekN_zegluj_net | 2018-02-22 | 19:38:30
Hi Cvetan,
That's not a bug.
It's new crazy VR idea. ;-)


Greetings
Tomek

Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-02-22 | 19:54:04
I'm sure Loick Peyron will get paid well from the revenues.
Post by iconPost by lorenzo | 2018-02-22 | 20:22:34
yeah, sure thing Peyorn will be playing on his mobile all the time....
or may be we will just follow Zezo routing
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-22 | 21:19:07
It makes (some kind of) sense. 2 week race, VSR 2, priced at VSR2 level that you'd see for a 7-week race. More money, less effort, designed to lure players to go into the limited player race - all participants get more points than all but the top 10 of the current VOR leg (more time, much more effort given the doldrums vs. Atlantic crossing in the fast direction)

I'm not sure I'll be doing anyone but VR a favor by supporting it, given that the prize is a random draw.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-22 | 21:26:52
But then the info still says 0 registered skippers. Maybe VR are still testing the water.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-22 | 23:37:26
I've never paid attention to the registered skipper count until this event. Any idea whether or not it updates "live"? If it was at 12 or 16, I'd say "wow, registration is indeed quite low"... but at zero, I have to wonder if maybe it simply only updates once per 24 hours or something. As much as I dislike this race's setup, I'm having a hard time believing zero people have signed up. There have to be SOME people out there with so much spare time and money that they sign up for all races regardless of cost.

It would be hilarious, though, if something like 6 boats did it.
Post by iconPost by mcmgj | 2018-02-22 | 22:23:56
https://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Subsee-trimaran-long-traveling-yacht-concept-1.jpg

the price is to buy the virtual VR boat to save virtual skipper in wrong route ... (look the link)
Post by iconPost by fadoue | 2018-02-23 | 05:06:06
They do not communicate the number of players... I joined, it is the first of a new race concept, and Peyron is my favorite skipper, it worth 25� to race with him.
He will sail in real conditions with his small trimaran Happy (copy of Mike Birch�s Olympus on the Magic Route du Rhum finished board to board with Michel Malinowsky.
Obviously the weather on the north route are with east to west winds
To get favorables winds you need to sail south of the Azores anticyclone.
So routing is quite complicated to select options. I hope that Cvetan will open this race...

But i also understand those who do not to buy full pack even i have now 25 000 tokens in the VR account...

I also want to stay in the top 200-300 skippers of the VSR ... and the race is level 2.... So I am in with full pack !

Post by iconPost by ChtiTonner | 2018-02-23 | 09:44:21
The only thing new is that you cannot play if you are a non-paying player. In each race, we are challenging the champions that are doing it in the real conditions. Enjoy your race. I am curious to see how many will subscribe though
Post by iconPost by fadoue | 2018-02-23 | 05:07:56
Cvetan do you have enough information to set up the map of this race ?
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-23 | 10:01:09
I can't get the polars without paying the fee.

And I'm not sure I (as a player) want to pay the fee.

Another option will be for someone to copy the log message containing the polars and mail it to me. But it will be very hard to support a new boat without actually playing the game.
Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-02-23 | 13:52:47
if you don't support it, Cvetan, it's gonna cost them paying players.
If VR is smart, they give you the polars.
But they aren't ;)
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-23 | 14:48:29
Maybe I'm dumb and don't care enough about the money. Investing 25 will pay off as pure monetary value (and maybe user satisfaction too. or maybe not, if people prefer to play it the way it was 40 years ago).
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-23 | 15:55:51
Maybe Cvetan can obtain the data from Fadoue?

The skipper count is still zero even though Fadoue has apparently registered, so I guess the count is confirmed to not be accurate. That's unfortunate. It would be really interesting to know how many are signed up. I'm undecided. If I wasn't high in the VSR, I definitely would not do it. But since it's Category 2, the top VSR boats are essentially being ransomed for 25 Euros.

On the other hand, it might be nice to drop from the #1 spot. I've been thinking about quitting after VOR and Clipper anyway. The amount of time and attention (and sometimes money) required to stay at the top is a lot, and it stops being fun after a while.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-23 | 19:09:06
Will Loick use weather routing? Will there be someone explaining all the quirks of the game? Do we make a better point about the nature of the game by not participating or beating him en masse and making some money for VR in the process?
Post by iconPost by Blewjob | 2018-02-23 | 20:29:56
VR have to collect funds to pay for the prize somehow...

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-23 | 20:35:47
You can collect funds by pricing the game $25 and gathering 100 players or pricing it at $5 and gathering 1000. And SO player have no chance to beat Lock, no? So why keep them out?
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-23 | 20:51:25
If I do it, I might do the entire thing in stealth mode, just to be obnoxious.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-23 | 20:56:30
Maybe we should all participate one last time, that will make VR make the game pay-only and all players finally get fed up and move to another platform?
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-23 | 21:09:13
One big problem is that if Cvetan doesn't do it and can't set up Zezo for it, then racers with their own routers will have a massive advantage. If Cvetan doesn't want to pay the entry fee, he shouldn't have to. But then maybe some people who choose to do this race will donate a few Euros to Zezo to cover his entry fee, so that he can do this race and enable it for the rest of us. (Personally, I'm still undecided. I'm certain that I wouldn't do it if I wasn't trying to defend my VSR spot. I'm actually quite tired of transatlantic races... They get to be routine after a while)
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-02-24 | 12:06:16
It's easy, use the donate button on Cvetan's page (I did) and give him the funds to participate.
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-23 | 21:15:57
Personally I would not participate ... A little disappointed because I worked on this boat 4 years ago that was to start the Route du Rhum with L. PEYRON ...
I think it's greed and they'll learn it at their expense, I hope it will serve as their lesson
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-24 | 07:26:52
You mean the boat is currently fully instrumentated and we can shut the purists should i decide to support the race?
Post by iconPost by lbl | 2018-02-24 | 07:14:29
Being stupid enough I already bit the bullet and paid the fee before reading this threat. How can I get you the polars once being registered?
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-24 | 07:17:34
@lbl:
Are you registered on the VR forum? If yes give me your boat name I will send you a pdf file
Post by iconPost by lbl | 2018-02-24 | 07:21:33
Laco001
I am
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-24 | 07:45:28
I am at work, it will be late afternoon ;)
Post by iconPost by lbl | 2018-02-24 | 07:47:25
cool; I will check the mailbox at around evening time; thx
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-02-24 | 12:06:33
It's easy, use the donate button on Cvetan's page (I did) and give him the funds to participate.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-24 | 13:06:58
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-24 | 14:34:34
After registering, is it possible to see who else is registered, or how many boats are registered? I'm really curious to know if more than 40 or 50 are signed up so far. All of the top players I have asked (which is only a few) have told me they do not plan to participate. Not as a formal protest... If people want to pay that much to participate, I don't care... but just because it isn't worth the cost.
Post by iconPost by patmaillou94 | 2018-02-24 | 14:41:19

I hesitate to participate in this race.I think I would register, if zezo is active on this race.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-24 | 14:44:47
I hope Cvetan wins the prize.
Post by iconPost by patmaillou94 | 2018-02-24 | 14:54:48
+1
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-24 | 15:09:32
The prize is a random draw. It's not a race but a lottery with a 25 EUR ticket.

With the added bonus of 12-day race that gives the first 15 boats more VSR points than winning a 3-week VOR leg.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-24 | 15:32:49
Understood. I just think it would be hilarious if you won that lottery. If only 50 boats do it, and only 35-40 beat Peyron, your odds wouldn't be too bad.
Post by iconPost by huditojo | 2018-02-24 | 15:15:34
After you register, you can't see how many boats are registered or even your friends.
Cvetan, have you decided yet if you're gonna participate or provide the routing for this race?
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-24 | 15:39:21
@lbl:
I do not find you on the VR forum ...
I put the link here (Valid 2 days only)

Post by iconPost by lbl | 2018-02-24 | 16:41:45
Thanks, got the pdf. I created the VR forum account just as we spoke earlier today - maybe it needed some time to get published or whatsoever. With zezo´s last post publishing the polars I guess I do not need to do that anymore, right? sorry, I am new to this... :)
thanks
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-24 | 15:39:46


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-24 | 15:44:20
http://zezo.org/happy/polars.json for people who have not registered (yet).
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-24 | 15:50:55
Oops sorry I did not see that you had them available ... :/
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-24 | 15:52:18
I got help from fellow player who has paid the fee.
Post by iconPost by GeGaX | 2018-02-24 | 16:00:35
My link is not polar but the way to get them (pdf tutorial) so it can be used by others ;)
Post by iconPost by nsp | 2018-02-24 | 18:25:15
LOL . This boat has foils!!!! Top speed 13 knots. :)))) What more is going VR to create? Finn with foils transat against Ben Ainslee ? Just to be faster...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-24 | 18:30:04
They released a new version in order to disallow participation without full options, but did not bother to remove the foils from it.
Post by iconPost by fadoue | 2018-02-24 | 19:44:00
This is totally typical from the technical VR team, they have no view of the users side...
Post by iconPost by Stormbringer | 2018-02-27 | 16:21:03
So what's the consensus yea or nay?

I would be up for it if some of you guys were in, I'd like to get my ranking up.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-27 | 16:41:34
I'm not planning to start. I'm hoping maybe Cvetan or someone else who's doing it can provide some info shortly after the start... (Roughly how many boats are in it, which top-ranked boats are participating, and whether or not the Escort Frigate is in a reasonable position). If the answer comes back as particularly interesting, I might join late. Most likely not, though. I checked with Mangina, Toppen (who also runs Ventus Mare), and Nicky761, and I don't think any of them are planning to do it.

The race starts at 6 AM in my time zone, and I don't want to get up early for the start anyway.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-02-27 | 17:13:02
I am not planning to do it neither. I don't care about the VSR ranking to be honest. Need to get my brain without virtual boats... lol
I would suspect that players who are VSR 13 or even 12 could be interested, this is a great option to jump into the VSR 14 group rapidly.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-27 | 17:23:49
I haven't decided myself yet. Would like to take a break, but can't provide proper support without starting the boat. Would go SO if the race was not closed, now will have to think about it a bit more.
Post by iconPost by Toppen | 2018-02-27 | 17:43:58
Neither Toppen nor Ventus Mare will participate...
Post by iconPost by occupywallstreet | 2018-02-27 | 21:20:24
I will not participate, this VR is already starting to imitate too much real world. I mean with money you can buy the edge. Whole world will end quite fast if we keep this kind of thinking. Anybody know with what way is Volvo supporting this game? They do state it is official VOR game...
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-27 | 21:45:44
Volvo (VOR, actually) probably get paid to make that statement.

Not a huge sum, compared to the budged of the entire thing, but still. Like you'd have to pay to make a Formula 1 game, FIFA game, or print the Olypmic rings on your tshirt.

In a better world VOR/Volvo would pay someone to develop and maintain a game to make some nice publicity.
Post by iconPost by nostro | 2018-02-28 | 09:54:16
I will not participate and since VR I do not pay anymore so from 200 I am 600 now. Adios ranking, adios amigos - - dboneill - -
Post by iconPost by GBR85 | 2018-02-28 | 10:12:34
Not going to do this race, but donated to zezo instead as a wiser investment. ;-)


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-28 | 11:32:41
I decided to pay the fee because it's impossible to provide proper support without access to the game itself. Not sure if I'll have the time for competitive play in the next two weeks.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-28 | 13:16:05
It will be interesting to see how many boats are participating and how many of those are good at it.

I'm actually curious to see how well Peyon does, I guess. I'm sure he can do well if he takes it seriously (especially if he uses Zezo).
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-28 | 13:41:14
Loick is sailing a conservative and somehow sub-optimal course right now at TWA 137, at polar flat sport and towards lower wind. Not something a router would suggest.

Everyone else is on the white line at TWA 125.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-28 | 13:43:05
It looks like temou_2is going for the southern route. The forecast flipped about 10 times between N and S options during the last few days, but looks more like North currently.

He's also the last boat on my screen, ranked 820
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-28 | 14:20:55
Wow... 820 entries is a lot more than I would have guessed.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-28 | 14:27:18
Most of them are not regular/advanced players. Only 5 boats from my watch list.

The race has great VSR ROI. Being last in it gives same points like top 20 in VOR.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-28 | 14:47:15
If you're doing the race halfheartedly just to provide support, may I recommend running the Strait of Canso? I was thinking about doing that, but it wasn't worth the price tag. A couple days ago, the routing wanted the fleet to go up there, and it looked (at that time) like maybe the wind would be better for going North earlier (through the strait). I'm not sure if it's still a viable approach or not, but I've always wanted to see someone win a race via that strait.

It's frustrating that those who aren't doing the race can't even watch it. So far, we can't even see the leaderboard. I don't know if that will change. If you (or someone else doing the race) finds some spare time, I'd love to know which boats from the VSR Top 50 are doing the race (ie, everyone within 10,000 VSR points of me).

How many VSR points will the winner get? Probably something ridiculous like 30,000...?
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-02-28 | 14:51:49
The winner gets 2 times the points of VOR leg winner, but because of the non-linear scale the 1000-th boat gets 1/5 of the points of the winner, hence half of the points of a VSR4 race winner.
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-02-28 | 17:51:50
You can use the spreadsheet that I built or the one BSGMarine did put together to calculate the amount of VSR points you get.
Here are the links :
www.docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12fXf_a_C9KQAWW0Sj6uDu1pJ1GdklqNki9wcJv0vbSY/edit#gid=1564497598
www.docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UtXGvMWG7ODCAaIJTAqjr__lvTehvgY9hyhb9rYX7vk/edit#gid=771351295


Post by iconPost by GBR85 | 2018-02-28 | 14:47:11
All french probably and hence not on this forum . . .

Post by iconPost by GBR85 | 2018-02-28 | 14:46:14
I think I saw an interview with Loick Peyron once saying he uses his professional routing system for his VR routing. Obviously he has all the tools, all for free I am sure, but maybe he has not a lot of time. Will try and dig out the interview but cant immediately locate it. I think it was for Vendee . . .

Post by iconPost by huditojo | 2018-02-28 | 15:09:32
There's no frigate squad and one of the boats going south is ranked 838.
Top 50 boats:
GALA5356
BIG BIRD
RAKETA
LUXAIRFRANCE PYR
TANGODANCER
Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-02-28 | 17:54:19
Speedou TPN,
Freiz Volante TPN,
XYC,
Indpedanceday
Freiz has nostalgy of his VSR ranking as #1 I guess ;)

Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-28 | 18:10:39
Thanks. So from the VSR rankings, we have the following:

4 - Luxair
7 - Djonny (started late)
12 - Raketa
15 - independenceday
24 - Big Bird
35 - Gala5356
41- Tangodancer
72 - Marcusbelgicus
84 - XYC
95 - Freizh Volante (I agree it would be fun to see him move back up)

Then Speedou is certainly a well-known and strong boat, but he reset to a new ID with VRO3, so he's technically just a level 11 boat. This race could jump him back to Level 14 and possibly straight to a high rank.


Post by iconPost by marcusbelgicus | 2018-02-28 | 18:15:44
No no, I am not doing it. I just got the information from other players.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-02-28 | 15:21:31
Thanks. Luxair will almost certainly replace me as #1, and he's with me in JVT, so I won't be passing him back with that. Raketa will probably go to #2. This assumes Luxair does well enough that Raketa doesn't go straight to #1.

Although I guess the truth is that the points awarded to the top few positions in a Category 2 race could be enough for any of those boats to move to #1, or even someone lower in the current rankings than them.

It's ok. The best active racer is still Toppen / Ventus Mare. He just happens to be splitting his points across two boats. It will be good for someone else to have a turn at #1 anyway. Any of the boats Huditojo listed would be appropriate #1 boats if they do well enough in this race to get the spot. The only thing that would really bother me would be if the Category 2 ranking on this event results in someone jumping from 200th place straight to #1, or something like that. That would be ok if it was the Vendee, but it isn't.

Interesting that there's no escort frigate. I wonder what happens if someone tries to start late. I'm not going to... but presumably a few boats will.
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-02-28 | 23:16:41
Hi Your Mom,
the maximum VSR points we can get with a level 2 race is 8000, and for a Top VSR (Level 14) player, the maximum get down to 7307 points.
So based on the current VSR rankings, only the players between yourself and Raketa (#12) can go to #1 position !
Which means Luxair, Djonny and Raketa ...

We can also calculate that Luxair, who is 4035 points behind you, need to be at least #8 to overtake you in the ranking.
At the reverse, if we imagine that Luxair finish #1, you would need to get at least 3272 points to keep your #1 ranking, and for that you would need to finish at least #17

Just in case you would like to jump in ;-)
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-01 | 01:32:18
Thanks for this analysis! Very much appreciated!
Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-03-01 | 22:18:18
By the way, to be more precise, we should also take into account the results of the last leg of the VOR which will close 2 days before the "challenge the champion".
It adds a a couple of candidates for the #1 position (Bluemonster, Kallemans, Indpendenceday and Tame Bird).

So a little more, but this doesn't change much the global picture !
Post by iconPost by Djonny TTW | 2018-02-28 | 16:06:14
it was interesting for me too - to join race after start. I did it 5min ago and got place 1.5 Nm after the Luxairfrance. Not so bad.
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-02-28 | 22:46:47
I just joined. 569th place. 5 nm north of Djonny TTW.
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-01 | 10:12:13


Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-02-28 | 23:24:58
To YourMomSA:

Do you mean going through this strait?



I could give it a try if you believe in it.

Boat: n'Lasse
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-01 | 01:47:17
Hi n'Lasse. Yes, that's the passage I was thinking of.

I'll put it this way...

- I don't think Zezo considers that route. So it's an opportunity to get separation from others who are blindly following Zezo or another router.

- It looks like fun to me. Partly because I've done a lot of races, and I follow Zezo a lot, and it gets tiresome to always be with the pack. On the other hand, I took a risk in the last Volvo leg, and it was a really fun way... to finish ~12,000th.

- For that passage to be viable, first you need two things... One is for your personal plan to be the St. Lawrence, passing North of Newfoundland. Obviously it's pointless to go up there if that isn't your plan. Second is to be good enough at coastal sailing to not run aground. If you run aground in there, it might be very hard to get free.

- But... is it better than taking the easy way on the path Zezo recommends? I don't know. My thought is... sometime when you're off Halifax about a day from now... Try plotting a route that starts somewhere in the Northumberland Strait, toward the Western end. Try to set a starting point over there that gives you a time at the North end of the Strait of Canso around the same time as whenever you think you'd be able to get to that destination from your current position off Halifax. Then check to see what time Zezo thinks you'd get to Belle Isle (at the exit if the St. Lawrence), and compare that to how your original routing looked. If it looks potentially beneficial, give it a shot! If not, then no... Don't take a flyer just because I thought it would be fun. I think about all sorts of crazy stuff that I choose to not actually do.

- My biggest reason for thinking that it could work is that 36 hours from now, Zezo has the fleet beating into 10 kts to get around the corner of Cape Breton Island, needing to tack twice to get around the corner... while a boat going through the Strait of Canso at the same time would be reaching, and would exit the strait into maybe 12 kts of wind. But... The wind angle after exiting the strait looks bad... So I suspect it's a bad idea. But it's worth consideration. Especially for a boat that started late and is running 569th already anyway. :-)
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-01 | 10:02:01
Thank's for your tips. I'll really consider making the move even if, as you pointed out, the winds doesn't look good after the strait...
Post by iconPost by Tantramar | 2018-03-01 | 04:58:50
What happens if the guy who opens the bridge at the causeway is nowhere to be found? Or a train is going across? Is there time penalty? LOL

Post by iconPost by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-03-01 | 07:38:23
How many players are there?
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-01 | 14:40:48
My estimate: 850 approx. (edit nr)

Post by iconPost by Caledonia | 2018-03-01 | 07:49:51
Interesting discussion over the Champions Challenge (Loick Peyron) race. It is sad that I feel the top VSR ranked players are being held to ransom and forced to play if they want to defend their rankings. If they play (and sail well as usual) they get a massive number of credits which most think are not justified for a race of this type, yet if they don't play their ranking will deteriorate.
So many of the top players have taken a stand and decided not to play on principle.

I support these players so I am also not competing. Simply, I don't want my modest VSR (29th) to be artificially improved . I want to earn my ranking by playing against the best.

VR needs to ensure they always have the best players competing in all races, so this is a disappointing new race format they have presented. Especially since they have just improved facets of the game like the message service etc, and I give them credit for that.
I appreciate that a prize is on offer but there surely is a better way to raise the capital if this was VR's intention. It is quite possible that with so many players not competing, because of the cost, VR will raise less money than if they had just stayed with their normal formula.

Not being able to access the race because I haven't paid to enter, the cost, and the unrealistic/laughable likely ranking changes has turned this race into a joke.
As I have said before "if it isn't broken don't try and fix it". Please VR take note.

For the record I don't know how many Kiwi players will compete but our top player
NZ-Eligo (VSR 10) will not be competing for reasons similar to mine.



Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-01 | 08:54:58
Looks like the entire points/credits system bites back.

The way it was before you either paid or did not. The condition to beat the champion is requirement to pay by itself, because you can guess the champion will beat at least the SO boats.

Now people have accumulated a lot of credits and a lot of players would participate with options but without paying cash. VR need hard cash and take measures to defeat their own credit system.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-01 | 14:15:10
For what it's worth... I don't think VR is actually trying to ransom top-ranked players for 25 Euros to defend rankings. I think that was a negative side-effect of their actual goal.

I think their actual goal was far more innocent. I believe they wanted to charge more than usual for participation in a special event that allows users to interact directly with a renowned professional sailor, which also offers a potentially expensive prize. I don't have any problem at all with their decision to make such a race limited-access and expensive. (I think it would be a better event if they allowed everyone to participate and just made the communication with Peyron and the opportunity to win the prize dependent upon the purchase of the full pack... but I don't have a problem with their decision to do it the way they've done it).

I believe the impact to top VSR players is a side-effect that they didn't consider. I believe their full-pack pricing is tied directly to the Categorization of the race... So when they decided to charge 25 Euros, whoever sets up each event was told to make it Category 2. I think the Category was applied simply to drive the price, not to cause difficulty for the top ranked players.

And... the numbers would suggest they didn't necessarily make a poor decision by charging 25 Euros. They have something like 800 players, right? 20,000 Euros in revenue is pretty good, and I'm not sure if they would have made more by charging less and hoping for more entries.

To be clear... I'm not actually "taking a stand" or "boycotting" per se... They decided to run a race that I considered to not be worth the price, and I chose to not participate accordingly. Simple as that. Having checked in with several other top players, my impression is that's pretty much how each feels. There wasn't an organized decision to avoid the race collectively. Some also indicated a need for a break... While running Clipper and VOR simultaneously, plus a JVT run, etc, it's normal to opt out of random other races. If this race wasn't Category 2, no one would be surprised by how few top VSR boats are participating.

I also want to be clear about one other thing... I have NO problem at all with Luxair, Djonny, Raketa, and others doing this race and moving up in the rankings. They're all excellent boats who deserve high VSR positions, and if this moves them to the top, that's ok. When VRO3 was introduced, VR reset the entire rankings and the enormous margin that Toppen and Ghostbuster had over everyone else (I was 6th) disappeared. Me being passed by Luxair, Djonny, or Raketa isn't any worse than how I passed Toppen and Ghostbuster. I have no grounds for complaint toward them.

Hopefully if VR continues to offer events like this, they'll adjust their pricing model to not be tied directly to the Category. The Category really should be connected more to the length and difficulty of the event.

Post by iconPost by Steve_NZ777 | 2018-03-02 | 11:51:16
You have a good attitude Mom :)
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-01 | 14:35:31
“Looks like the entire points/credits system bites back.“

My advise is that VR hires a proper econometrist.
Post by iconPost by Caledonia | 2018-03-01 | 07:52:56
Please note the post by Caledonia is actually from Barquerme.
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-01 | 14:39:14
Well, I changed my mind and bit the bullet (many VSR points to earn), entered late and heading South.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-01 | 18:02:40
I think I'll bail out to the South route too.
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-01 | 18:07:46
#jointheforce lol
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-02 | 11:33:41
Not my brightest idea, but spending the weekend around Newfoundland did not seem a good idea either.
Post by iconPost by UffeF | 2018-03-01 | 19:40:10
Joining the game late is a good thing for VR, =more money! But is it fair to all players who started yesterday?

We had this situation in VOR some years ago. As I remember all of the late starting boats had tho good taste to ground their boats before arrival in NZ.


Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-01 | 20:45:28
That scenario isn't as bad as it used to be. In the past, the "escort frigate" travelled along the rhumbline at a position that matched something like the 60th percentile of the fleet... which was fine if the fleet sailed the rhumbline, but it was a serious problem when the fleet diverged from rhumb to sail the optimal course while the same DTFs on rhumb gained an advantage. (The case you're thinking of was Sanya to Auckland, where everyone was sailing upwind toward the Philippines, taking a slow shift to the right that drove them South, while their DTFs dropped in on rhumb were advantaged to windward). I never had a problem with people who gained that advantage accidentally, which I believe was most of them. Some people got really angry about it, but if you start a race late and unintentionally gain an advantage, that isn't your fault. I suppose the gentlemanly thing to do would be to go head-to-wind for a fixed period of time that you consider to balance out your perceived advantage, though...

I would have been unhappy with people consciously looking for those scenarios and intentionally starting late to gain advantages, but I don't know of people doing that. If anyone did, I think it was rare.

Anyway.... the current version if the escort frigate is better. I don't know exactly what it does, but I believe it's placed at a position randomly matching a boat somewhere mid-fleet. It CAN still produce a lucky benefit if the fleet is diverging from rhumb such that you get dropped in with the true leaders just because they're presently ranked mid-fleet... But you can't predict that you'll be dropped in a lucky spot like that, and it can't drop you ahead of the leaders. So while it might not be perfect, it's a lot better than it was in the past.
Post by iconPost by UffeF | 2018-03-01 | 21:04:55
In this race I see no frigate. YourMomSA will for sure get a good dropping position right now, as many top-players turn 180 degrees at this moment. ;-)
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-01 | 21:34:13
Thanks for the encouragement, but I'm not going to jump in. I'm simply not interested in spending 25 Euros on a 1-week race.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-01 | 22:18:14
More like 2 weeks, but yes, too expensive for the duration. It's sad, because it's actually a good race. Atlantic crossing with a boat that's fast enough not to be boring, but not too fast like the modern maxi trimarans to make it trivial. And the forecast is quite challenging with the two very distinct possible routes.
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-02 | 04:20:39


Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-02 | 11:31:01
That was good ;-)
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-02 | 14:25:35
You're exactly right Mommy (as in many times ;) ) see my answer below.
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-02 | 08:00:53
Going for Strait of Canso now...
Post by iconPost by huditojo | 2018-03-02 | 08:54:53
You have company...
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-02 | 09:59:29
I can't see you!!



Post by iconPost by huditojo | 2018-03-02 | 10:52:15
Accidently got ghost mode on...in about 6H it will disappear...I'm about your 1st waipoint or less

Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-02 | 12:50:15
Mission completed! Not sure if it was clever though... But it was fun! :-)



Post by iconPost by huditojo | 2018-03-02 | 13:04:30
Stressing...if your not around the computer like me, that I'm at work...Even so it was fun and the schedule at the end of Strait of Belle Isle remains as if I've gone with "the all pack"...
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-02 | 14:20:09
"Joining the game late is a good thing for VR, =more money! But is it fair to all players who started yesterday?"

In fact it's a disadvantage on this occasion. I had go to South from much further North than I would have when started from the beginning. Helios for instance has now an 8-10 hours advantage (dunno exactly cause he/she's stealth). And frankly I had no idea where I would be dropped.

In fact I started where normally I would expect the Fregat would be positioned and that is near the main pack which is North.

I remember indeed in the past when entering late you would start near the rhumbline



Post by iconPost by Old-git | 2018-03-02 | 20:35:33
From a well-informed source, I can tell you that Tipapacheri is also doing the race. He currently sits in 6th position in the VSR ranking.

Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-02 | 22:03:20
It might not be possible to provide a good answer until tomorrow, but whenever it becomes possible to do so, I'm curious... How did things work out with the Strait of Canso? Did it help or hurt versus boats who took the more traditional route toward Belle Isle (specifically... boats who were close to the Canso folks prior to the split)?
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-02 | 22:19:29
Loick also bailed out and is not going North of Newfoundland. The routing still benefits the South. I'm at least 12 hours behind the boats taking the South route from the start (about 20-30 of them I'd say) but still better than the North pack.
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-03 | 10:20:26
I saw that too, rather late with this decision. It was obvious from the beginning.
Post by iconPost by huditojo | 2018-03-02 | 23:50:16
Myself and Lasse, we went trough Strait of Canso and it wont affect me because I was already behind Speedou, who is in the front of "the north pack",my schedule now remains the same at Strait Belle Isle exit, which is the same at the time of the split.
Post by iconPost by fadoue | 2018-03-03 | 13:30:03
Well done Lasse, that was a clever option, you are very close in distance from the leaders of the St Laurent option...


Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-03 | 15:47:26
Thanks! :-)
Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-05 | 14:03:02
What's the latest status of the fleet?

My vague impression is...

- Boats that took the South road from the start are leading.

- Most of the top contenders started heading for the North road, and then made a hard turn to the South a couple days into it... Putting them... what? 10-20 nm behind the lead pack?

- North group is past Belle Isle, but needs a change in forecast to beat either of the other groups.

Did I get it right, or am I way off? Roughly how many boats in each group, and who are the top contenders, and where's Loick?

It's unfortunate that you can't watch the race without being a registered entry.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-05 | 14:25:42
It's a huge mess ;-)

meteo79 is leading on the South route

I went North initially and bailed out, now ranked 74th 12 hours behind him

Loick bailed out later and is now in the middle of the picture (and the fleet)



Post by iconPost by Xeelee | 2018-03-05 | 15:54:56
From time to time Loïck tweets about the race..

https://twitter.com/loickpeyron/with_replies

Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-05 | 15:56:08
Wow. A 12-hour gap to 74th place already. That's a pretty dynamic start to the race. Congratulations to those who went South early. I was definitely planning on the North route, so I'm sure I wouldn't be with that lead group.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-05 | 16:12:26
The initial group heading South was probably quite small - less than 50 boats, and some of them are further South, so there is about 3 hour distance between the first 10 boats.

Quite unlike most races that end up with 100 boats within 5 minutes. That would be the case if the forecast had not flopped for 15th time, but it did.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-05 | 16:14:51

Post by iconPost by mcmgj | 2018-03-05 | 17:19:30
Hi HI
How Loick can be 509th with 0 skippers ??? !!!
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-05 | 20:01:02
The last Swede is now on 910th place.



Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-05 | 20:03:26
North group looks like this from my point of view.



Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-05 | 20:05:57
And this is the big picture.



Post by iconPost by YourMomSA | 2018-03-09 | 23:24:08
What's the latest here? Based on the red dots, I'm guessing...

- The small group that went South from the start has about 40 hours to go...
- The boats that went North and then bailed out South are 4-18 hours behind, depending on how long they waited to bail out.
- The boats that went North are something like 30 hours behind.

I'm glad I didn't pay to do this race. I'm pretty sure I would have insisted on staying North. I really prefer to go closer to the poles whenever I'm far north or south, and this probably wouldn't have been an exception. 25 Euros is a lot to spend to find yourself hopelessly behind.
Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-10 | 11:15:51
That's quite accurate description. Maybe the latecomers stretch from 6 to 24 hours, but that's it. I'm 54th, about 16 hours behind the leader, Loick Peyron is 186th, about 18 hours behind me.
Post by iconPost by WoKeN | 2018-03-10 | 12:42:16
Dunno, had a look at the beginning and South seem to me the most logical option, but decided not to enter. Later I realized how many VSR points I could earn and being only lvl 10 I decided to enter anyhow, 20 hours into the game. Now position 62 just behind The Bird.

The field is literally scattered all over the place.







Post by iconPost by Flying Phil | 2018-03-13 | 18:44:12
Is the race over?
Where could we see the results?
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2018-03-13 | 21:43:53
Voici le résultat. Il y a eu 2 options de route très distinctes en début de course : nord par Terre Neuve, et sud par les Açores.
Le sud a gagné, et très peu de skippers avaient choisi cette route car les routages sur les runs déterministes passaient par le nord. Pourtant, avec la configuration météo du départ (NAO négative), le sud avait toutes ses chances et les routages sur l'ensembliste de GFS le montraient clairement.





Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-13 | 21:58:57
Congrats! You made a good choice and a good run.

Post by iconPost by zezo | 2018-03-13 | 21:57:20
Less than 400 boats have finished so far. The official info says race will be closed in two days, on March 15th. My Facebook feed says they have drawn the lottery winner (because Loick Peyron has finished, so boats beating him are already known) and the name is DIOMEDA100
Post by iconPost by Lasse | 2018-03-13 | 22:22:49
No, that can't be correct. I was told by VR that I have beaten Loick Peyron and that I will have a chance to win the prize...



Post by iconPost by BGSteMarine | 2018-03-13 | 22:42:58
Thanks for the info n'Lasse, and congrat for your ranking !

Your result allows us to validate the VSR points calculation algorithm for level 2 races !!
Post by iconPost by Flying Phil | 2018-03-13 | 22:20:53
Merci pour le retour meteo79niort et félicitations pour cette belle seconde place.
Post by iconPost by meteo79niort | 2018-03-14 | 08:11:26
Merci à tous, mais c'est surtout Raf12f qu'il faut féliciter, c'est lui le vainqueur ;-)

border
Topics list
Posts
border
2
border
border
4
border
border
6
border
border
8
border
border
48
border
border
17
border
border
4
border
border
48
border
border
12
border
border
Copyright 2009 by ZEZO.ORG. All Rights Reserved.